Reply to: Overtime through Hays

[psychocandy]

Beware of hays they are very slippery with ot. They charge the client but the contractor doesn’t see it.

At IB during jubilee and royal wedding client paid BH even if not working and triple time if you were. Those of us NOT with hays received this those that were did not.

Also those with hays if you worked w/e but had any time off the week following you lost your ot, those not with hays did not.

I wouldn’t work for them personally.

Yep I can quite imagine with Hays. Seen them try every trick in the book int he past...

[NotAllThere]

Have you been paid normal rate for the extra 20 a week or nothing ?

This would indicate he is getting the normal rate.

...Anyway I seem to be getting no premium on overtime...they've said they'll look into getting a premium for overtime... The contract has no mention of overtime, and only states the minumum weekly hours.

[tarbera]

Overtime through Hays

"The contract has no mention of overtime"

This means you don't get overtime not 1.5 time not 1.0 time you get zero for any hours you work over 40

Can't see how it's the agents fault - you signed the contract

If your last contract had free golden eggs - would you expect the same at this one?

Have you been paid normal rate for the extra 20 a week or nothing ?

[conteractingtherules]

I get paid hourly, for those you that are wondering.

When I came onto the project I was with a team, 3 other permies.
2 permies left and now it's me and this poor other chap who is getting the Permie run around.

Coming onto the project, it was straight forward and amazing exposure for what it is. So there are major long term benefits having this exp under my belt.

In my past 3 contract roles, overtime has been on a premium (x1.5), so this is new to me in this role.

I've emailed the useless idoit at Hays twice about this and he hasn't responded, a phone call is in order. The contract has no mention of overtime, and only states the minumum weekly hours. Also it took Hays about a month to sort out thier sh*t and get me on their system.

I don't mind sucking it up for the remaining 4/5 months of the contract, but I agree with others on here, the extra hours are silly.

I would caution anyone to work through Hays.

[Anonimouse]

Beware of hays they are very slippery with ot. They charge the client but the contractor doesn’t see it.

At IB during jubilee and royal wedding client paid BH even if not working and triple time if you were. Those of us NOT with hays received this those that were did not.

Also those with hays if you worked w/e but had any time off the week following you lost your ot, those not with hays did not.

I wouldn’t work for them personally.

[northernladyuk]

Permies do this (work 1.5 times their hours) in the hope of promotion and/or bonuses.

I'll work some extra hours on occasion if the need arises, but contractors do not usually do these type of extra hours.

You are a business, an external consultant. Think like one. Bill like one.

You think you're builder or plumber will do that? Ok some people hate the workie analogy.

You think Accenture will do that? Maybe if it will win them more business, but then they have lots of other employees they can bring in, you don't.

Maybe it might help you get a contract extension, but it is just as likely it will have no effect.

Accenture will do that because they will make their employees work extra hours for free. Generally, I agree.

The project I work on has just had its resources halved (from 2 to 1 - me) and now they are wondering how they will get the work done. I politely advised that I don't mind working the extra hours to support a go-live but I'm not working harder because they are reducing expenditure.

Clients are like needy children. You shouldn't reward bad behaviour.

[northernladuk]

Salary??

<<mod snip: we're not in General here>>

Todgerwomble?

[uk contractor]

Permies do this (work 1.5 times their hours) in the hope of promotion and/or bonuses.

I'll work some extra hours on occasion if the need arises, but contractors do not usually do these type of extra hours.

You are a business, an external consultant. Think like one. Bill like one.

Perm's also do this either with the management promise of exchanging the time given for extra holiday or time off in lieu in the week (usually Monday or Friday to extend their weekend). But I have also worked in some very well known investment banks where the perm staff are expected to do a certain amount of this in return for getting a higher appraisal score (which is bonus dependent on that). Perm's with young families are understandably very reluctant to do this as they lose quality face time which cannot be replaced so quite often IME those perm's refusing to cover out of hours is what generates the contractor request to cover whatever it is.

But for us outside IR35 contractors its very naughty to expect us to do for free as it makes us closer to a disguised perm as well as undermines the contract rate & duration plus if you manage to wrangle an extra rate boost brings resentment from your perm colleagues.

[jmo21]

Permies do this (work 1.5 times their hours) in the hope of promotion and/or bonuses.

I'll work some extra hours on occasion if the need arises, but contractors do not usually do these type of extra hours.

You are a business, an external consultant. Think like one. Bill like one.

You think you're builder or plumber will do that? Ok some people hate the workie analogy.

You think Accenture will do that? Maybe if it will win them more business, but then they have lots of other employees they can bring in, you don't.

Maybe it might help you get a contract extension, but it is just as likely it will have no effect.

[uk contractor]

Not good. I get that but it's not a salary is it.

It would have been a healthy income the replacement did almost 24 months @ 336-350 a day!

[northernladuk]

Around the £150-160K mark for an 18 month extension! So an expensive mistake by the agency as I was put on the spot by the client so had no wriggle room to say let me get back to you they wanted an immediate answer as they had assumed it would not be a problem due to the agency account manager (who was leaving anyway) not wishing to rock the boat & assumed over time would never come up.

Not good. I get that but it's not a salary is it.

[uk contractor]

Salary??

<<mod snip: we're not in General here>>

Around the £150-160K mark for an 18 month extension! So an expensive mistake by the agency as I was put on the spot by the client so had no wriggle room to say let me get back to you they wanted an immediate answer as they had assumed it would not be a problem due to the agency account manager (who was leaving anyway) not wishing to rock the boat & assumed over time would never come up.

[psychocandy]

Agreed Hobo,

If you're on day rate and even if it says 40 hours then they may well not pay for any extra. Either way if your're on hourly rate and work 60 hours without mentioning it then you're risking not getting paid those exra hours.

Can't see many clients being pleased when they get hit with 80 extra hours to pay for after a month. They're going to assume you won't be billing for this.

Yes PWD can be a piss take. For me if it gets over 8 hours too often then we have a word.

[Hobosapien]

If there's no separate rate for outside the normal 40 hours/week detailed in the contract then best you can hope for is to get paid for the extra time at the standard rate.

The 40 hours in the contract is the standard time expected and is not rigid as it's down to what you agree with the client as to what time you spend delivering the work if you anticipate it to be much different to the 40 hours standard.

The starting point is to establish additional rates prior to accepting/starting the contract, or at renewal if you think there's a chance of getting it agreed. If you get it in writing in the contract then you can invoice the agent and it's up to them to ensure their contract with the client matches.

When the workload looks like it is going to deviate from the standard contracted hours then discuss the situation with the client to ensure they agree on an approach to either only timesheet full days worked (if working less than 40 hours/week) or timesheet the additional hours somehow (1.5 days, against sat/sun even though you didn't work the weekends, or whatever the timesheet process allows for over delivery). It's obviously a lot easier to handle if the rate is hourly rather than daily.

Getting the timesheets approved by the client is the main thing, then you can invoice for the approved timesheets.

Other thing to be wary of is contracts that mention 'professional working day' if on a daily rate, as the rate you accept may look good for the anticipated typical 40 hour week, but the client could easily take the piss by expecting you to work 60 hours for same rate.

[psychocandy]

60 hours a week. Hmmm.

Couple of things:-

-I aint doing 60 hours a week on a regular basis anyway ever - I have a life.

- Are you getting paid the extra 20 even at flat rate? Or just the 40 and hoping you'll be paid the rest at a premium?
If its the 1st one you are mad. Chances are you will get bugger all extra. If you're dull enough to work extra without it getting sorted up front then client may well assume you're doing for free.

Premium for overtime. Very rare. If you're on hourly rate its the same 24/7 usually.