Reply to: Travel requested by client

[TheFaQQer]

Depends whether you want it done right or not.
And, funnily enough, warehouse design isn't focussed on driving a forklift. The people who design them that way normally end up getting professionals in to redesign them later when they realise they need an efficient layout, the right software, the right design etc.

A former client of mine spent ages designing the warehouse layout and getting it all integrated with our software solution. They were repeatedly told during the software development "are you sure that you only want this to work for one warehouse, or should we build in the flexibility to have other warehouses where stock is stored?" and they repeatedly said "no, this is a big warehouse. It's a new warehouse. It's the best warehouse and it's all we will ever need". And so, the system which does pick-pack-ship was built to only ever cater for the one warehouse.

Roll on a few years and client bought a competitor. The result now being that they have two warehouses in different parts of the country. Apart from in the software, where they have one big warehouse which has a section of "new stock locations" which re 250 miles from the other ones...

[WTFH]

Unless you're the one actually driving the fork-lift through the warehouse making such changes, then you don't need to be physically present in the meeting when you redesign the layout.

Depends whether you want it done right or not.
And, funnily enough, warehouse design isn't focussed on driving a forklift. The people who design them that way normally end up getting professionals in to redesign them later when they realise they need an efficient layout, the right software, the right design etc.

[billybiro]

It depends what your work is.
Code monkeys can code from anywhere.

If you're implementing infrastructure changes or designing solutions where there's physical movements involved, e.g. manufacturing/warehousing/distribution, then on-site meetings are necessary.

Unless you're the one actually driving the fork-lift through the warehouse making such changes, then you don't need to be physically present in the meeting when you redesign the layout.

[WTFH]

Not only that, but has the client never heard of Skype, Google Hangouts, BlueJeans, Zoom, WebEx, GoToMeeting or any one of the other hundreds of online video conferencing solutions?

It's very rare these days to really need to be required to be in some other place as part of your work.

It depends what your work is.
Code monkeys can code from anywhere.

If you're implementing infrastructure changes or designing solutions where there's physical movements involved, e.g. manufacturing/warehousing/distribution, then on-site meetings are necessary.

[billybiro]

Travelling anywhere, for any reason, at the request of the client (other than local client offices). Too cautious perhaps, but ymmv.

Not only that, but has the client never heard of Skype, Google Hangouts, BlueJeans, Zoom, WebEx, GoToMeeting or any one of the other hundreds of online video conferencing solutions?

It's very rare these days to really need to be required to be in some other place as part of your work.

[radish2008]

Travelling anywhere, for any reason, at the request of the client (other than local client offices). Too cautious perhaps, but ymmv.

Total nonsense.

[WTFH]

SA: Cape Town and Port Elizabeth are nice cities (and lots of options for things to do at the weekend)
Jo'burg, Pretoria, Durban aren't that great

[unixman]

I'd disagree. Particularly if you are contracted to deliver a specific project/piece of work.

Yes, if you're contracted to work on the helpdesk, or your contract specifies "general work", i.e. nothing specific, then you might have a reason to be cautious.
But if you are contracted to deliver a project, and the rules for your travel are different to those of the permies, then I do not see any risk.

You might be right. I was asked to travel abroad in my last gig but declined the invitation, as it seemed like "direction and control". It wasn't needed for me to perform the work, and they later renewed the contract, so all good.

I might say "if you hire somebody to build a conservatory, you don't send them on a building course". I don't really know though, these arguments could go on forever. IR35 is, after all, designed to be uncertain and woolly.

[newcontract]

Thanks for all the info and suggestions. Based on your suggestions I am looking at:
- Check on requirements for working passport, insurance, medical reqs (will be SA only so hopefully ok) - pass any costs on to client.
- Can pay first, claim back later, as long as agreed estimate up front in writing. Check for client policies/allowances.
- Bill as many days as possible!

[WTFH]

Travelling anywhere, for any reason, at the request of the client (other than local client offices). Too cautious perhaps, but ymmv.

I'd disagree. Particularly if you are contracted to deliver a specific project/piece of work.

Yes, if you're contracted to work on the helpdesk, or your contract specifies "general work", i.e. nothing specific, then you might have a reason to be cautious.
But if you are contracted to deliver a project, and the rules for your travel are different to those of the permies, then I do not see any risk.

[Lance]

They have asked me to go but mentioned that I would need to pay the trip myself and they would reimburse me.

Be very cautious and check your contract.
I am always fine with paying up front as long as the contract has clauses for expenses. At the very minimum you want to be able to bill for 'expenses agreed in advance'.
That way you'll need an email agreeing for flights, hotels and subsistence for the trip, preferably with the locations in the email. That email will mean you have a leg to stand on if they don't want to pay.
Also make sure you understand their expenses policy (some may tell you that's for perms, but I wouldn't fancy your chances of them agreeing to pay more than they would for a perm).

[unixman]

Travelling to a workshop?

Travelling anywhere, for any reason, at the request of the client (other than local client offices). Too cautious perhaps, but ymmv.

[northernladuk]

Call me an IR35 wimp but I wouldn't touch it. Far too IR35y.

I'd say that's way down on the list of things we could call you.

[l35kee]

Call me an IR35 wimp but I wouldn't touch it. Far too IR35y.

Travelling to a workshop?

[unixman]

Call me an IR35 wimp but I wouldn't touch it. Far too IR35y.