Reply to: IT contracts in Canada

[Lance]

Yep. Why I said "outside IR35 like setup". I hear the Canadian taxman is much more strict, so maybe "umbrella company like" setup is the only option if my scenario is similar to OP - which may still be attractive because you pay less tax compared to UK, but struggling to find examples since the market is so small.

but there is no such thing. You need to understand the legal obligations in a different jurisdiction by learning them. Forget what you know about the mess that we have as it will be NOTHING LIKE it.

[eversmannen]

IR35 is based on UK legislation. If you move to Canada to contract it has absolutely no impact or jurisdiction.

Yep. Why I said "outside IR35 like setup". I hear the Canadian taxman is much more strict, so maybe "umbrella company like" setup is the only option if my scenario is similar to OP - which may still be attractive because you pay less tax compared to UK, but struggling to find examples since the market is so small.

[TheDude]

"Big Data" whats that but big bulltulip, I would kill myself first before describing myself thus

Data engineer would be a more dignified and professional term to use.

[Lance]

Did you end up moving/contracting? keen to know more as the contracting gig is not so common in BC, specially if you're trying to do an outside IR35 like setup?

IR35 is based on UK legislation. If you move to Canada to contract it has absolutely no impact or jurisdiction.

[cojak]

Did you end up moving/contracting? keen to know more as the contracting gig is not so common in BC, specially if you're trying to do an outside IR35 like setup?

Who know, since the thread is four years old - he never came back...

[eversmannen]

I am an IT contractor (Big Data) in London UK , my present daily wage is £600 . I also have a Canadian permanent residence. I am tired of the housing and transport situation in London. I went to Canada last year for a short visit was impressed with the standard of living (big roads, big houses, huge 4x4 cars). I am keen to move there, however I have noticed while searching for a similar contract role in Canada that there aren't as many IT contract roles in Canada as in London UK and also the companies don't pay as much in Canada as they do in London. If anyone has any experience of IT contracting in Canada please share your thoughts here. Also, would you move to Canada if you were earning a similar wage as I am?

Did you end up moving/contracting? keen to know more as the contracting gig is not so common in BC, specially if you're trying to do an outside IR35 like setup?

[oilboil]

Are you still living in Canada? I am considering Calgary because quality of living is very high, I have a friend there and houses are new, cheap and beautiful.
No offence, but Toronto to me is just like another London i.e. expensive, low quality houses ,difficult and long travel on miserable trains.
Although quality of life in Toronto is still better than London but I would like a quantum leap.

No left a while ago because its just no fun there in the Winter and in the summer its just too hot.

I spent ages working in the Oil & Gas industry up in Calgary and it very quickly gets boring and you crave a proper city and some culture.

If you think TO has bad housing and long journeys on trains its because you are looking to live out in the 'burbs (Markham, Missisauga etc.) - no matter what anyone tells you that is like calling Crawley or Milton Keynes part of London

The housing in downtown TO, or the good residential villages around (St Clair, Rosedale etc.) it is excellent, expensive but worth it and from those you are never more than a 10 minute subway or streetcar to anything in the city

[greypanda]

If you care about the raw number than London is the only market that will work for you - if you care about what that translates to in terms of life then Canada could be great - just not Calgary it's effing freezing (twice as cold as Toronto - and that's pretty brutal)

Are you still living in Canada? I am considering Calgary because quality of living is very high, I have a friend there and houses are new, cheap and beautiful.
No offence, but Toronto to me is just like another London i.e. expensive, low quality houses ,difficult and long travel on miserable trains.
Although quality of life in Toronto is still better than London but I would like a quantum leap.

[oilboil]

The OP needs to check they still have permanent residence - if they haven't spent a certain amount of time in Canada in the last two years it will have lapsed anyway.

As most others have said the job market out there is very different - the majority of IT work that is done by contractors in this country is handled by the big consultancies (Deloitte, EY, KPMG, IBM, CGI) who all "look" very different from their UK equivalents (more like a large bench of temporary resource than a strategy and large project delivery team)

The market for contracting just isn't that large (unless you can get a US work VISA or a green card and hop across the border to work) Canadian PR doesn't entitle you to work in the US (in fact it can make it harder to get permission)

When I moved to Canada (albeit as a permie) I was on about £100K UK and took a similar role in Canada (for the same employer) on £130K CAD - when the exchange was roughly 2 dollars to the pound, on paper a large pay cut - in reality a massive uplift in quality of living

If you care about the raw number than London is the only market that will work for you - if you care about what that translates to in terms of life then Canada could be great - just not Calgary it's effing freezing (twice as cold as Toronto - and that's pretty brutal)

[northernladuk]

What you are doing is complete nonsense. If someone says "wage" (whether they are at court over IR35 or not) and what they mean is "a fixed regular payment earned for work or services, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis" (as defined by a notable online source) then that is completely acceptable as far as contracting is concerned. Just because another definition exists somewhere that might be contradictory is besides the point.

What is nonsense is using a term that relates to personal income to describe company income. Two completely different things with absolutely no relation to each other. To say that mixing the terms and the other person knows what you mean is just poor. That's just working on assumptions and that the audience isn't as big an idiot as the person using the term.

As I say, nothing wrong with using the correct terminology to avoid confusion. Using the wrong word might work with peers but it certainly causes issues if you use the term wage with someone like an accountant who does have a very clear and concise view of what it means.

e.g.,
When William says in court that himself and Elizabeth went out on a date, do you think in cross examination the lawyer flicks through his multiple dictionaries and informs the witness that 'date' is a type of fruit? What you are doing here is nothing short of this.

OMG lol. No it's not. You are mixing two very clear words up. A wage, personal income, rate, company income. It's nothing to do with two meanings of 'date'. There are not two meanings of wage.

I appreciate that you cling to the idea that there is no overlap between what happens in the 'perm' world and the far distant world of contracting,

Not clinging to anything. A wage is not what a client pays a supplier. Period. I'm not sure why you don't get this. It's the wrong word.

but the sooner you can find acceptance that there is significant similarity the better. Keeping things like IR35 and 'terminology' and potential court appearances in your toolbox to fight off those villains that want to compare the two is a lovely little demonstration of resolve. But it is not practical.

Typical worktimes are the same
Dresscode is the same
Perms and Contractors often work on the same team, and sometimes they are even able to converse in the same language
Same buildings
Same people
Same meetings
Same hairstyles

Because they are all similar it doesn't mean I am the same as permie. To me all those things are the clients and in that case I will adhere to them out of professional courtesy. Just because they are similar it doesn't mean they are the same. But that isn't the argument. The argument is the use of the term wage. The wrong use. Got it yet?

[bazzawatson]

In which case you would be wrong. A couple of more clicks finds more definitions that state...





The Collins page goes even further and adds usage which further clarifies..

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...y/english/wage

What you are doing is complete nonsense. If someone says "wage" (whether they are at court over IR35 or not) and what they mean is "a fixed regular payment earned for work or services, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis" (as defined by a notable online source) then that is completely acceptable as far as contracting is concerned. Just because another definition exists somewhere that might be contradictory is besides the point.

e.g.,
When William says in court that himself and Elizabeth went out on a date, do you think in cross examination the lawyer flicks through his multiple dictionaries and informs the witness that 'date' is a type of fruit? What you are doing here is nothing short of this.

I appreciate that you cling to the idea that there is no overlap between what happens in the 'perm' world and the far distant world of contracting, but the sooner you can find acceptance that there is significant similarity the better. Keeping things like IR35 and 'terminology' and potential court appearances in your toolbox to fight off those villains that want to compare the two is a lovely little demonstration of resolve. But it is not practical.

For the most part it is in fact, very similar:
Typical worktimes are the same
Dresscode is the same
Perms and Contractors often work on the same team, and sometimes they are even able to converse in the same language
Same buildings
Same people
Same meetings
Same hairstyles

Agreed there are some differences.

[Alam]

Try looking at the cost of living, not just the daily rate.

How much will a property cost you to buy/rent?
How much is fuel, etc?

£600k will get you this: https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Home-.../50287010.html or this 3 bedroom semi-detached house for sale in Markenfield Road, Guildford, Surrey, GU1

Petrol is 78p a litre, compared to £1.21
etc

That is very true - cost of living in Canada especially Calgary is low - I have been there before and a nice place to bring up a family

Question is how can one get a work permit or a residency permit there for Brits ?

Thank you

[northernladuk]

Google.

Define:wage

"a fixed regular payment earned for work or services, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis"

I see no issue with 'wage' by that definition. Some people seem to go into a frenzy in relation to the terminology required to be a 'good contractor'. Similar shock expressions below.
Job?
Employer?
Salary?

In which case you would be wrong. A couple of more clicks finds more definitions that state...

A regular payment, usually on an hourly, daily, or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially for manual or unskilled work.

a particular amount of money that is paid, usually every week, to an employee, especially one who does work that needs physical skills or strength, rather than a job needing a college education:

The Collins page goes even further and adds usage which further clarifies..

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...y/english/wage

When used as a noun, pay is a general word which you can use to refer to the money you get from your employer for doing your job. Manual workers are paid wages, or a wage. The plural is more common than the singular, especially when you are talking about the actual cash that someone receives. Every week he handed all his wages in cash to his wife. Wages are usually paid, and quoted, as a weekly sum. ...a starting wage of five dollars an hour. Professional people and office workers receive a salary, which is paid monthly. However, when talking about someone's salary, you usually give the annual figure. I'm paid a salary of £15,000 a year. Your income consists of all the money you receive from all sources, including your pay.

There is nothing wrong with using professional speak and the correct terminology for what you are doing. It removes any confusion and assumption and stops you looking like a noob. In many cases they are wholly wrong, subtly in some cases, but wrong.

Try having a discussion with your accountant and keep mentioning wages.
Stand up in court in an IR35 case and talk about employer and wages.
Resolve contractual issues by blurring the lines between employer.
Shake a clients hand when you get offered a gig and say 'Thanks for employing me, I look forward to my first wage'.

Just silly. Understanding what you do and use the right term isn't hard and it's professional. Your companys services are employed by a client or agent, not you are employed by then. That leads to people mixing up who has actually employed their services. If there is an agent it's them not the client etc.

We see it so often on here that the wrong terminology leads to a lengthy thread trying to get to the bottom of what they mean and it will affect you in the real world. You don't see salesmen or two business doing a deal talking about wages.. it's just silly.

[bazzawatson]

Wage?

Google.

Define:wage

"a fixed regular payment earned for work or services, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis"

I see no issue with 'wage' by that definition. Some people seem to go into a frenzy in relation to the terminology required to be a 'good contractor'. Similar shock expressions below.
Job?
Employer?
Salary?

[CoolCat]

Manchester is booming as well, just on the wrong side of the hills.
Houses in and around Bradford are very affordable and Bradford is an enormous area that extends into North Yorkshire and isn't bad for commuting (except London, although BA flights to Heathrow are cheaper than the train).

last perm job in the area £70k
last contract in the area £500/day

Bradford was once nice

Nowadays it would be impossible, especially if you had kids you needed to find schools for, the race relations in the area are very problematic, and there are definitely "no go" areas that the police have given up on