Reply to: Which Trades Union for IT Contractors ?

[eek]

Still nothing there that IPSE doesn't already provide, plus little things like agency failure coverage and payment for enforced days off work. As has been said already, IPSE+ is both comprehensive and cost effective even if you subscribe to the "IPSE have done f*** all for contractors" nonsense.

But hey, if what the union are selling meets your needs, then go ahead.

That's not what I'm saying and you know it... For contractors IPSE offers things they want, for freelancers not using Agencies I wouldn't be so sure that its value for money....

[malvolio]

Given that you now live in Ireland and clearly don't understand what unions are actually offering may I suggest you do some research.

http://Indycube.community are offering and I quote



Granted its not something I as a contractor need. But if I was a freelancer, didn't have £100k in the bank account and wasn't working through an agency who factored the bills for me I would be interested.

Still nothing there that IPSE doesn't already provide, plus little things like agency failure coverage and payment for enforced days off work. As has been said already, IPSE+ is both comprehensive and cost effective even if you subscribe to the "IPSE have done f*** all for contractors" nonsense.

But hey, if what the union are selling meets your needs, then go ahead.

[eek]

A Trade Union will support you in employment relationships, not business relationships. If you're through a brolly, I guess you're an employee. Maybe Propsect? Not sure if they would be much use in a dispute with a brolly (perhaps if you don't get paid because agency doesn't pay brolly?)

Given that you now live in Ireland and clearly don't understand what unions are actually offering may I suggest you do some research.

http://Indycube.community are offering and I quote

So, what's on offer? Firstly the “fun stuff”, sign up to get cheap cinema tickets, money off deals on holidays and a host of leisure offers, or get Total Motor Assist and protect your no claims bonus. In the event of a car accident, you get vehicle recovery, vehicle repair, like-for-like replacement vehicles, private healthcare and specialist legal support. It’s a no brainer really!

Then we get on to the serious stuff, benefits that could massively change your business. We offer free legal support as part of your benefits package. Our experienced team can help directly with most legal queries. If they don't know, we have a panel of law firms across the U.K on hand to take up the challenge. From contracts to employment law, they are there to help and it's free to IC Members.

We have also negotiated an invoice factoring service for all business to business transactions. No one goes into business to chase invoices, nor to get paid late, yet very few people know about factoring. For larger businesses, it's a big deal - in the U.K. almost five times as much finance is provided via factoring than is provided via bank overdrafts, but, until now, it wasn't available to smaller operators. In a first for the U.K., that's now changed. The deal is very affordable - in fact, it's exceptional. For 2.15% of the invoice value, you can guarantee to get paid on time, and even protect yourself if your customer goes bust and can't pay. Furthermore, you will no longer need to run your own credit control (invoice chasing) function. Our partners do that for you, so you can just concentrate on building relationships with your customers. To put it into perspective, and as a worked example, for £107.50 you can guarantee you'll get paid your £5,000 invoice on time, and use the time you used to chase that invoice to do something more rewarding.

Granted its not something I as a contractor need. But if I was a freelancer, didn't have £100k in the bank account and wasn't working through an agency who factored the bills for me I would be interested.

[l35kee]

Good friend of mine is a male primary school teacher, didn't seem to have any issues getting a job.

[northernladyuk]

There's no male teachers in infant schools? I find that hard to believe.

There are very very few, but there must be some. Common enough in junior schools.

[northernladyuk]

Hi,

Was thinking of joining a Union and wondered which Trades Union is most appropriate for IT Contractors ? Anyone done that recently and care to share their views as to which Union offers the most appropriate benefits to its members wrt IT Contracting ?

I should say in advance that I am not considering IPSE after a tulipe experience with them in the past and am only looking at "proper" Trades Unions.

Thanks,

Boo

A Trade Union will support you in employment relationships, not business relationships. If you're through a brolly, I guess you're an employee. Maybe Propsect? Not sure if they would be much use in a dispute with a brolly (perhaps if you don't get paid because agency doesn't pay brolly?)

[eek]

Teaching is another trade where the insidious influence of trade unions is apparent. For example the complete absence of men in infant school teaching is largely down to discrimination fostered and supported by the unions. As is the politically correct dogma forced down trainee teachers throats as part of their training.

So Teaching is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with unions, hypocritical, two faced, and so on.

Having spent years as a School Governor the lack of men has more to do with men not wanting to go into infant school teaching more than anything else. From memory probably 1 in 5 applicants were male and that's reflected in the ratios in local schools.

[SueEllen]

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy in action. Teaching unions exist to further the power of teaching unions - not to improve teaching, or even, really, a teacher's lot.

The teachers (and ex-teachers) I know only joined a union due to the risk of being accused of doing something to a child. (Similar to contractors joining IPSE for the tax investigation insurance.) They aren't interested in the other tulip and some of them delibrately chose their union on their strike record.

[TheFaQQer]

For example the complete absence of men in infant school teaching

There's no male teachers in infant schools? I find that hard to believe.

[SueEllen]

Teaching is another trade where the insidious influence of trade unions is apparent. For example the complete absence of men in infant school teaching is largely down to discrimination fostered and supported by the unions. As is the politically correct dogma forced down trainee teachers throats as part of their training.

So Teaching is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with unions, hypocritical, two faced, and so on.

How odd - the male primary school teachers I met, know and shared a house with had no issues getting work. Neither did the make secondary school teachers.

Unfortunately many, like most of the female teachers I know, left teaching because they could deal with the tulip coming from different directions. Incidentally none of them included the kids when describing that tulip.

[NotAllThere]

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy in action. Teaching unions exist to further the power of teaching unions - not to improve teaching, or even, really, a teacher's lot.

[bobspud]

Unions will only be interested in you if you are in permanent employment.

They view contractors as money-grabbing aberrations.

Join IPSE if you want a voice.

No longer true. When the IR35 debacle happened earlier this year, by chance I met a couple of trade unionists in a bar. They were down for a conference but had said that the Unions are very interested in contractors as they view them as a potential growth market. This is why they have been fighting the Uber / City Sprint cases.

Would join one just yet but watch them carefully

[CoolCat]

No they are not - ask a teacher who a pupil has accused of abuse. The current cases against Uber and courier companies are be conducted with the help of unions.

Teaching is another trade where the insidious influence of trade unions is apparent. For example the complete absence of men in infant school teaching is largely down to discrimination fostered and supported by the unions. As is the politically correct dogma forced down trainee teachers throats as part of their training.

So Teaching is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with unions, hypocritical, two faced, and so on.

[TheFaQQer]

The uber and courier cases can actually turn out very bad for us contractors

Where someone is falsely self-employed for tax purposes (whether that is for the individual or for the company that should be employing them), that should be called out and prevented as far as possible.

What do you think would be bad about that for contractors?

[ladymuck]

The problem with the Uber and courier cases, is that they still don't give a cut and dried picture. Some of the workers are happy with their status, and others are not. Some of the rulings are therefore (espcially wrt to couriers more so than Uber) person specific rather than industry wide.

I agree with eek that highlighting false self-employment, especially where it's used by employers to avoid their liabilities and deny worker rights, is a good thing.