Reply to: The applicant will essentially have the following:-

[vwdan]

IME a degree is just a fast-track to get higher quicker, doesn't mean you're any better once you're there - so the "older folks" are probably on similar ground to their degree-holding peers, but they probably took longer to get there

I started contracting (in engineering) at 25, 3 years out of uni - I don't think I'd have got a single interview if I didn't have a good degree

See, the problem with anecdotal evidence is my experience has been the exact opposite. For years I was always the youngest at my seniority (and above) as the junior, degree holding, guys scrambled to catch up. I did get some lucky breaks in my early 20's, for sure, but at 25 I'd already got a solid 7 years of experience and was moving into a pure senior consulting (Though not contracting, as I was too chicken) role.

Things have definitely evened up now - but in IT* I've not come across anyone my age who has particularly out performed me so to speak.

I will grant you that other fields differ immensely, of course - but, personally, for much of IT formal education doesn't really count for much.

[SussexSeagull]

I genuinely couldn't tell you if most of the people I have worked with in the last decade were graduates or not.

[SueEllen]

I did hear they were so old that Rubiks cubes back in those days were only available in black and white...

You really mean 50 shades of grey....

[perplexed]

Depending on NLyUK's age that wouldn't have helped get a job.

I did hear they were so old that Rubiks cubes back in those days were only available in black and white...

[SueEllen]

[Emphasis mine]

Seems to me that the "studying Latin in university" is entirely incidental here and it's that "innate talent / interest in solving problems" that counts.

You probably could have spent those university days solving Rubik's Cube's and other hand-held puzzles in your bedroom and it would have conditioned your brain in the same way with the problem-solving skills required to design and implement the IT solutions that you do today.

Depending on NLyUK's age that wouldn't have helped get a job.

[billybiro]

I do work in IT but have a degree in Latin. I've never written a line of code in my life and barely ever looked at a line of code. But spending three years at university learning to solve difficult logical problems (Latin), and also to analyse and sift through evidence to understand much fuzzier problems (Roman history) has left me very skilled at designing and implementing IT solutions (and occasionally non-IT operating models) to address complex problems. I seem to be much better it than my pure 'IT' colleagues, but they are better at other stuff. With mutual respect we get stuff done. It is however probably true that if I chose to study Latin, I had an innate talent / interest in solving these problems.

[Emphasis mine]

Seems to me that the "studying Latin in university" is entirely incidental here and it's that "innate talent / interest in solving problems" that counts.

You probably could have spent those university days solving Rubik's Cube's and other hand-held puzzles in your bedroom and it would have conditioned your brain in the same way with the problem-solving skills required to design and implement the IT solutions that you do today.

[perplexed]

I do work in IT but have a degree in Latin. I've never written a line of code in my life and barely ever looked at a line of code. But spending three years at university learning to solve difficult logical problems (Latin), and also to analyse and sift through evidence to understand much fuzzier problems (Roman history) has left me very skilled at designing and implementing IT solutions (and occasionally non-IT operating models) to address complex problems. I seem to be much better it than my pure 'IT' colleagues, but they are better at other stuff. With mutual respect we get stuff done. It is however probably true that if I chose to study Latin, I had an innate talent / interest in solving these problems.

Meh, I spent years at university abusing my liver and falling asleep in lectures. Other than some relational database theory, everything I've ever used in IT has been self-learnt.

Degrees are over-rated; even more so after successive governments have strived to push any and everybody into university rather than delivering appropriate educational needs, ie vocational / techical colleges.

[northernladyuk]

the da vinci code?

If they'll pay a decent daily rate....

[pr1]

But spending three years at university learning to solve difficult logical problems (Latin)

...

It is however probably true that if I chose to study Latin, I had an innate talent / interest in solving these problems.

the da vinci code?

[northernladyuk]

OK, I take it back, you clearly do have a chip on your shoulder.

Read SE's post carefully. Going to university is no more about learning some (soon to be redundant) technology than reading a book is about counting paragraphs. Either you didn't go to university (see above ), or you spectacularly missed the point.

Incidentally, I don't work in IT.

I do work in IT but have a degree in Latin. I've never written a line of code in my life and barely ever looked at a line of code. But spending three years at university learning to solve difficult logical problems (Latin), and also to analyse and sift through evidence to understand much fuzzier problems (Roman history) has left me very skilled at designing and implementing IT solutions (and occasionally non-IT operating models) to address complex problems. I seem to be much better it than my pure 'IT' colleagues, but they are better at other stuff. With mutual respect we get stuff done. It is however probably true that if I chose to study Latin, I had an innate talent / interest in solving these problems.

[SueEllen]

That's right, I've seen them. They spend all day, every day making the office brews. Some great on the job learning there.

That's called learning office politics.

[billybiro]

In England and Wales a four year degree tends to be a sandwich course, though I some cases it is a Masters. Anyway in year 3 of a sandwich course you are out learning on the job.

That's right, I've seen them. They spend all day, every day making the office brews. Some great on the job learning there.

[SueEllen]

Are you seriously trying to suggest that you need to go through a 4 year degree course in order to "learn how to learn"??? (I.e. pick up a book and read it)

Give me a break.

What next? A 4 year degree to learn how to breathe? FFS.

In England and Wales a four year degree tends to be a sandwich course, though I some cases it is a Masters. Anyway in year 3 of a sandwich course you are out learning on the job.

[SueEllen]

I was a baby when I learned how to learn stuff.

Different sort of learning.

If you learn correctly then you realise you never stop learning.

[Bee]

You don't do higher education to learn stuff, you do it to learn how to learn stuff...

I was a baby when I learned how to learn stuff.