Originally posted by SuperZ
View Post
- Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
- Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!
Reply to: SJD passes contract on IR35 QDOS fail
Collapse
You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
- You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
- You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
- If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
Logging in...
Previously on "SJD passes contract on IR35 QDOS fail"
Collapse
-
-
Originally posted by SuperZ View PostMust admit I don't care about notice periods or finishing early.
Regarding the whole commercial arrangement, so are you saying some or all of these contract review services actually get to see the contract between the agency and the client? I completely agree about the whole commercial arrangement thing. If they're not doing that then paying someone to just review your contract with the agency means nothing, really.
Yes agencies use bog standard contracts but if a client - and lots of my clients seem to - ask for specific terms they insist are put in between the agency and the contractor. In many cases the resultant contract has a few clauses that are repetitive but in slightly different ways.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by malvolio View PostIPSE (note...) have been trying to do that for years but the agencies aren't interested. Why would they be, there are running a £28bn a year business built largely on a one-size-fits-all solution aimed at minimising all their risks. They are also selling employees, not service providers, so clearly they need their contracts to look like they do and not simple B2B arrangements.
It's working practices that determine your IR35 status, not the contract. We know enough to get the "bad" clauses negotiated out these days, then go on to work as though we were just another employee, demanding notice periods, getting upset when gigs finish early and taking on work not described in the contract schedule. And do you seriously think your IR35 friendly contract with the agency is reflected in the master agreement the agency has with the end client?
If you're getting a contract reviewed, then do it properly. Use someone who looks at the whole commercial arrangement not just the IR35 bits. Then it becomes worthwhile.
Regarding the whole commercial arrangement, so are you saying some or all of these contract review services actually get to see the contract between the agency and the client? I completely agree about the whole commercial arrangement thing. If they're not doing that then paying someone to just review your contract with the agency means nothing, really.
Leave a comment:
-
IPSE (note...) have been trying to do that for years but the agencies aren't interested. Why would they be, there are running a £28bn a year business built largely on a one-size-fits-all solution aimed at minimising all their risks. They are also selling employees, not service providers, so clearly they need their contracts to look like they do and not simple B2B arrangements.
It's working practices that determine your IR35 status, not the contract. We know enough to get the "bad" clauses negotiated out these days, then go on to work as though we were just another employee, demanding notice periods, getting upset when gigs finish early and taking on work not described in the contract schedule. And do you seriously think your IR35 friendly contract with the agency is reflected in the master agreement the agency has with the end client?
If you're getting a contract reviewed, then do it properly. Use someone who looks at the whole commercial arrangement not just the IR35 bits. Then it becomes worthwhile.
Leave a comment:
-
There's got to be a better way of doing this surely? I mean contracts are rarely individual things. To me this is all a great contractor scam, praying on fear. I cant be bothered to explain all but:
Contracts are rarely individual things. There's no custom contract for each one of us - we're not that special.
Template contracts - agency should be working with us to ensure outside IR35, then update contracts used for other contractors
Why don't someone like the PCG work with agencies to "educate" them on contracts that are suitable for contractors? We can then have an approved list of "IR35 friendly" agencies which by it's nature would then force other agencies to want to be approved too as contractors will only want to work with those on the approved list. Surely, once an agency gets it right, it should just form a template moving forward? Easy
Instead we have this £90 a time scam with "opinions" given sometimes and I very much doubt they read through each one too. If they get a contract from Hays for example they'll probably quickly eyeball it with another from Hays that has passed and that'll be that, £90 quid for 5-10 mins work, kerching..
And given someone on £400 a day is probably at £5-6k worse off anyway these days (flat rate VAT, dividend changes) and the public sector are now mostly "inside" contracts I think if anything the risk has lessened to other contractors. Depends what your daily rate is I suppose.
I do use services too especially if I think it seems inside but also just these days dump a lot into a pension anyway.Last edited by SuperZ; 30 July 2017, 08:37.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by washed up contractor View PostNo disrespect to QDOS, they do good insurance policies. But, imho, using QDOS to do IR35 reviews is like asking your accountant to do it. Get your contracts IR35 reviewed by professionals like Bauer and Cottrell or Abbey Tax.
There may be some discussion around that area possibly but starting with asking your accountant is just utter rubbish.Last edited by northernladuk; 29 July 2017, 20:03.
Leave a comment:
-
No disrespect to QDOS, they do good insurance policies. But, imho, using QDOS to do IR35 reviews is like asking your accountant to do it. Get your contracts IR35 reviewed by professionals like Bauer and Cottrell or Abbey Tax.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by SuperZ View PostYou're welcome
....30 prosecutions a year? FEAR, RIP OFF, ta da .
Sorry, I'm in annoying mood this evening .
I wouldnt be surprised if IR35 investigations get dropped given that they're making a decent amount out of hard working contractors than they used to (flat rate VAT, dividends) and the rates aren't improving and most pubby sector contractors are inside anyway.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by SuperZ View PostSorry, I'm in annoying mood this evening .
Gordon Brown's ugly step-child was so poorly defined that it's hardly surprising people will have different views on contracts. They don't want it to be tightly defined. They want people to be scared into umbrellas or into operating within IR35. The fact that some people blow it off and operate outside when they should be inside is a small price to pay for the many people who operate inside (or within umbrellas) out of FUD, when they might well be outside if there were a clear definition.
So since HMG won't give us a clear definition of disguised employment, of course there will be times when contract reviews will give differing answers. They've left huge grey areas, and many contracts will fall in those areas.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by northernladuk View PostOpinions based on real court cases and legislation. Not our fault it's so badly implemented. It could still cost us a packet to get it wrong. I wouldn't call 90 quid or free with other products a decent sum either.
But thanks for your valuable input.
....30 prosecutions a year? FEAR, RIP OFF, ta da .
Sorry, I'm in annoying mood this evening .
I wouldnt be surprised if IR35 investigations get dropped given that they're making a decent amount out of hard working contractors than they used to (flat rate VAT, dividends) and the rates aren't improving and most pubby sector contractors are inside anyway.Last edited by SuperZ; 28 July 2017, 21:30.
Leave a comment:
-
Originally posted by SuperZ View Postlove how you people are paying decent sums of money for opinions.
Like with most markets created based on fear, you're being ripped off IMO.
Feel sorry for the poor fools reading through all these contracts. I'd give up after 5 and say "yep, you're fine"
But thanks for your valuable input.
Leave a comment:
-
love how you people are paying decent sums of money for opinions.
Like with most markets created based on fear, you're being ripped off IMO.
Feel sorry for the poor fools reading through all these contracts. I'd give up after 5 and say "yep, you're fine" .
I reckon behind QDOS you'll find an MP who backed IR35 and made all these stupid insurances that nobody will ever claim on mandatory.Last edited by SuperZ; 28 July 2017, 21:04.
Leave a comment:
-
I used the IPSE (direct) template last week
re: notice, it specified 1 month's notice for the consultancy to the client, and that the client can terminate immediately at any time.
Leave a comment:
- Home
- News & Features
- First Timers
- IR35 / S660 / BN66
- Employee Benefit Trusts
- Agency Workers Regulations
- MSC Legislation
- Limited Companies
- Dividends
- Umbrella Company
- VAT / Flat Rate VAT
- Job News & Guides
- Money News & Guides
- Guide to Contracts
- Successful Contracting
- Contracting Overseas
- Contractor Calculators
- MVL
- Contractor Expenses
Advertisers
Contractor Services
CUK News
- Streamline Your Retirement with iSIPP: A Solution for Contractor Pensions Sep 1 09:13
- Making the most of pension lump sums: overview for contractors Sep 1 08:36
- Umbrella company tribunal cases are opening up; are your wages subject to unlawful deductions, too? Aug 31 08:38
- Contractors, relabelling 'labour' as 'services' to appear 'fully contracted out' won't dupe IR35 inspectors Aug 31 08:30
- How often does HMRC check tax returns? Aug 30 08:27
- Work-life balance as an IT contractor: 5 top tips from a tech recruiter Aug 30 08:20
- Autumn Statement 2023 tipped to prioritise mental health, in a boost for UK workplaces Aug 29 08:33
- Final reminder for contractors to respond to the umbrella consultation (closing today) Aug 29 08:09
- Top 5 most in demand cyber security contract roles Aug 25 08:38
- Changes to the right to request flexible working are incoming, but how will contractors be affected? Aug 24 08:25
Leave a comment: