Reply to: Handling 'guidance' re WFH

[SueEllen]

Yep i can recommend Bargain Hunt and Cash in the Attic before lunch with a bit of Judge Rinder in the afternoon

Why not use your Freeview/FreeSat and watch Judge Judy in the morning instead?

[SlipTheJab]

Really?? What kind of a businessman are you? Is this a battle worth fighting? Get a life. Watch telly on the WFH day and keep invoicing.

Yep i can recommend Bargain Hunt and Cash in the Attic before lunch with a bit of Judge Rinder in the afternoon

[AnthonyQuinn]

How would you handle this?

I understand the IR35 issue with me having direction & control, including my normal place of work etc. And I also understand that in practice I have to be on client site most days.

The project manager is telling all contractors that they can WFH one day a week and whilst I don't have an issue with where I work, in trying to point out that she can't dictate that to all contractors it's starting to get blown all out of proportion.

I don't want to bang a drum that makes me out to be a trouble causer, but at the same time if there ever was an investigation on any of us and it was found that we has all been given this instruction then we'd potentially all be seen as disguised employees and there would be tax implications for all contractors and the client and any agencies.

Would you just ignore it and do what you feel is right? Would you continue to explain the rights and wrongs of it all?

Really?? What kind of a businessman are you? Is this a battle worth fighting? Get a life. Watch telly on the WFH day and keep invoicing.

[northernladuk]

Many clients are now sizing there offices on 7 desks to 10 people etc so WFH is essential their plans to save money so could be that.

This particular item has little to no bearing on IR35 so don't worry.

[JRCT]

You've got this all wrong. D&C has very little to do with where you work and it's a very minor IR35 flag at best. Adhering to clients requirements which includes places and time is common and is part of providing a good service. In some places you have no choice. It doesn't make you a permie, it makes you a good supplier. Coming in and saying you want totally different requirements just because you are a contractor is a bit dumb.

I get that. And at no point am I suggesting that my attitude is "I'm working at home because I want to". Quite the opposite. I don't have any issue, practically, with working every day in the office or every day at home. I'm comfortable with that. The bit I'm not is that it seems to just be dictated down to us all for no good reason. The WFH policy of one day a week for everyone, for example, bears no relation to the type of work we have to do.

It's one of lots of things that are making me very wary of this contract from an IR35 pov.

[northernladuk]

How would you handle this?

I understand the IR35 issue with me having direction & control, including my normal place of work etc. And I also understand that in practice I have to be on client site most days.

The project manager is telling all contractors that they can WFH one day a week and whilst I don't have an issue with where I work, in trying to point out that she can't dictate that to all contractors it's starting to get blown all out of proportion.

I don't want to bang a drum that makes me out to be a trouble causer, but at the same time if there ever was an investigation on any of us and it was found that we has all been given this instruction then we'd potentially all be seen as disguised employees and there would be tax implications for all contractors and the client and any agencies.

You've got this all wrong. D&C has very little to do with where you work and it's a very minor IR35 flag at best. Adhering to clients requirements which includes places and time is common and is part of providing a good service. In some places you have no choice. It doesn't make you a permie, it makes you a good supplier. Coming in and saying you want totally different requirements just because you are a contractor is a bit dumb.

[SteelyDan]

... so I'll just quietly melt into the background and let this one go.

Right decision...some battles worth fighting; some not.

[JRCT]

Thank you, everyone. Good to get your collective opinions on this.

I'm aware that I like to argue a point into the ground sometimes - the wife will attest to that one - so I'll just quietly melt into the background and let this one go.

[radish2008]

if there ever was an investigation on any of us and it was found that we has all been given this instruction then we'd potentially all be seen as disguised employees and there would be tax implications for all contractors and the client and any agencies.

The lady doth protest too much...Reality of this happening on scale 0-10?

This. Again and again.

[radish2008]

This all came about because I had one big task that I had to do and I said that I was going to "Do this at home tomorrow" the reply I got was "But you wfh on a Monday? We're only allowed to wFH one day a week" and "We have to have the same rules for everyone".

I have never worked on a contract before where anyone is bothered where I work from. Like most people, I pretty much choose where I need to be sensibly each day, based on the nature of what I have to do.

But this is already being blown out of proportion, especially as it's on the back of another contractor stating that he would be "Unavailable" for two weeks because he's going on holiday.

WFH is very common in financials and is very common where I am. It's a resourcing issue as there aren't enough desks for people so they rota people working from home, contractors and permies alike.

You are making waves and trying to causing an issue where there simply isn't one. From an IR35 perspective why do you need to be on site ? Does D&C kick in because they tell you to WFH one day a week and specify what day it is ? Or are you just responding to your client's need in a professional manner and doing as they ask ? Where is there any case law from an IR35 investigation that supports anything you say ?

When I take holiday I phrase it as 'I'll be off for 2 weeks in August ...' - if they made an issue of it then I might push back and say I'll be unavailable, or I might just as easily change the dates if it's going to cause a problem. I certainly wouldn't dream of saying 'From an direction and control standpoint you can't tell me what to do' because, apart from looking like an arse, it would be totally impractical.

[SteelyDan]

if there ever was an investigation on any of us and it was found that we has all been given this instruction then we'd potentially all be seen as disguised employees and there would be tax implications for all contractors and the client and any agencies.

The lady doth protest too much...Reality of this happening on scale 0-10?

[l35kee]

It makes it a lot easier to help when we know the real story!! :P

Falling back on the IR35 argument helps less, but using what was agreed in the contract is better. Even better, manage the PM. Sounds like they like conformity, and regularity, perhaps it helps them feel more in control. If it was me, I'd be already sitting down with them and agreeing a set number of days per week that I'll be in the office, the the days I won't. Unless anything urgent comes up which changes the schedule. And I definitely wouldn't be picking a Monday as one of those WFH days (unless I'm commuting from far, far away).

Falling back on the ir35 thing probably blew it up as I imagine that was the last thing the PM expected, and saw it for what it was.

[WTFH]

OK, the new version of the story is considerably different to the original one. Sounds like there is a break down in comms between the PM and you.

[FrontEnder]

This all came about because I had one big task that I had to do and I said that I was going to "Do this at home tomorrow" the reply I got was "But you wfh on a Monday? We're only allowed to wFH one day a week" and "We have to have the same rules for everyone".

I have never worked on a contract before where anyone is bothered where I work from. Like most people, I pretty much choose where I need to be sensibly each day, based on the nature of what I have to do.

But this is already being blown out of proportion, especially as it's on the back of another contractor stating that he would be "Unavailable" for two weeks because he's going on holiday.

That explains it a bit more than the opening post, which sounded like you were just stirring the pot.

If your contract stated you can work where you want, I'd tell the PM that and and tell them since they're a contractor too, that they aren't a party in said contract and they don't have the authority to dictate terms or overrule it. If they're persistent about it, then either ignore and see what happens or raise the issue with the appropriate person who works for the client.

The bit in bold is just total bulltulip and p!ss poor project management, IMO. Consistency for consistencies sake.

[JRCT]

Is your issue because you want to work from home more than 1 day a week?

No it's because he feels he is under too much direction and control by being dictated to which day he can wfh.

This all came about because I had one big task that I had to do and I said that I was going to "Do this at home tomorrow" the reply I got was "But you wfh on a Monday? We're only allowed to wFH one day a week" and "We have to have the same rules for everyone".

I have never worked on a contract before where anyone is bothered where I work from. Like most people, I pretty much choose where I need to be sensibly each day, based on the nature of what I have to do.

But this is already being blown out of proportion, especially as it's on the back of another contractor stating that he would be "Unavailable" for two weeks because he's going on holiday.