Reply to: Trump H-1B visa changes- will they now flood the UK contract market?

[uk contractor]

Trump administration to allow for 15,000 more foreign workers - POLITICO
here is another good quote just for a laugh I will post it below and wonder what UK politician would dare try to do this to save UK IT jobs!
"To qualify for the H-2B visas, hiring companies must attest under the penalty of perjury that they are “likely to suffer irreparable harm” without the influx of workers"

[BrilloPad]

Understanding why a visa can be so coveted and reviled - CNN.com
Very interesting and in-depth article on the ravages of H-1B and how it affects both the worker being replaced & the one being brought in from somewhere else. Mentions a lot of things relevant to what is now happening in the UK Tier 2 Visa program (the import worker eventually passes the role over to someone in their own country completing the offshoring cycle). The usual offshoring suspects are mentioned it states they save on average $45K per worker once they are brought onboard.

Whether H-1B or Tier 2 happens or not, offshoring is still going to happen.

[uk contractor]

Understanding why a visa can be so coveted and reviled - CNN.com
Very interesting and in-depth article on the ravages of H-1B and how it affects both the worker being replaced & the one being brought in from somewhere else. Mentions a lot of things relevant to what is now happening in the UK Tier 2 Visa program (the import worker eventually passes the role over to someone in their own country completing the offshoring cycle). The usual offshoring suspects are mentioned it states they save on average $45K per worker once they are brought onboard.

[skysies]

I showed the French some Rab C Nesbit episodes to demonstrate the variety of accents. Also Auf wiesersehen pet. They didn't understand much of it.

Yeah, that's more like a joke right? If they want to reduce the immigration in their Brexit phantasy world, it will be fair to also reduce very substantially the quotas for the Indians...

[Lance]

I showed the French some Rab C Nesbit episodes to demonstrate the variety of accents. Also Auf wiesersehen pet. They didn't understand much of it.

[Lance]

Other European countries are not nearly as keen on offshoring as the UK is. They value having people on-site. People who can readily communicate, understand and share the same values. For that reason, companies elsewhere in Europe tend to always have at a minimum a core team of EU staff who runs the show, and only then allow parts of the work to be performed elsewhere.

E.g., they understand the value of collaboration and the actual cost that comes with offshoring to a location with far lower rates (on paper).

Carnage in Indian IT? As Wipro fires 500, here is what other cos are doing | Business Standard News

I think it's more practical than that. English is the main language used so that will put off europeans to some degree. And having worked in France for a while I found that whilst english was used everywhere the accents were a real problem. I basically spent months translating between Chinese and French accents of English.
Th British can handle Indian accented English. No other country can.

[uk contractor]

Yes, end clients in the UK are now more and more looking for onsite contractors at offshore rates.

I'm working all abroad (in the EU) nowadays. Not through UK agencies, because they try to undercut foreign local agencies while charging higher UK margins, leaving very little to UK contractors.

UK is also starting to look at Umbrella inside IR35 as well so rates are going to go even lower as many financial services companies are trying to safeguard any HMRC issues by forcing temp staff onto Umbrellas within IR35 rather than employ full time as it pushes the employee tax & NI contributions away & saves them a fortune on those as well as holiday & sickness pay & the dreaded company pension! There is either going to be an even bigger shortage of contractors willing to work for ever decreasing rates & or something will have to give. Either end clients reconsider or face spending more money to fix the mess they will create by having these unfriendly to experienced contractors payment requirement's

[uk contractor]

Well said. Its already happening. My previous contract ended in March (they were moved to Pune) and the ads I see are a minimum 20-25% less than normal rates. For the ones that had decent rates, I didn't receive any response whatsoever.

Started working towards moving to different technology (e.g. Big Data) but finding it difficult to get a gig with no real experience in it.

Keep looking as lots of fake ads around few genuine jobs right now. I also noticed a disturbing new trend since mid April 2017 with several financial services clients insisting on contractor payment via Umbrella Inside IR35 which also takes rates down another 25-30%! At these rates it will be better paid working in another industry sadly


This is the sort of thing UK Gov are considering in the building industry they need to consider now in IT as well!: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/341389...ith-6k-charge/

[m0n1k3r]

UK has a very greedy boardroom vulture culture probably more than other EU countries is why I think they are offshoring left right & centre. As US H1B target was breached in a week no doubt those 100,000s left with nothing will try to flood the UK (which is already over saturated with their compadre's!). Eventually it will sort itself out as the quality of local IT staff will speak for itself but I fear a lot of short term pain in the UK IT sector for local contractors especially but even perms will feel the heat when 2 x Tier 2 workers will still be cheaper than hiring one of them.

Yes, end clients in the UK are now more and more looking for onsite contractors at offshore rates.

I'm working all abroad (in the EU) nowadays. Not through UK agencies, because they try to undercut foreign local agencies while charging higher UK margins, leaving very little to UK contractors.

[uk contractor]

Yeah, I think the flooding will hit us soon. You say, this will sort itself out. The question is, when will that happen? 10, 20 years from now?

10-20 years sounds about right sadly!

[Brummie]

UK has a very greedy boardroom vulture culture probably more than other EU countries is why I think they are offshoring left right & centre. As US H1B target was breached in a week no doubt those 100,000s left with nothing will try to flood the UK (which is already over saturated with their compadre's!). Eventually it will sort itself out as the quality of local IT staff will speak for itself but I fear a lot of short term pain in the UK IT sector for local contractors especially but even perms will feel the heat when 2 x Tier 2 workers will still be cheaper than hiring one of them

Well said. Its already happening. My previous contract ended in March (they were moved to Pune) and the ads I see are a minimum 20-25% less than normal rates. For the ones that had decent rates, I didn't receive any response whatsoever.

Started working towards moving to different technology (e.g. Big Data) but finding it difficult to get a gig with no real experience in it.

[skysies]

UK has a very greedy boardroom vulture culture probably more than other EU countries is why I think they are offshoring left right & centre. As US H1B target was breached in a week no doubt those 100,000s left with nothing will try to flood the UK (which is already over saturated with their compadre's!). Eventually it will sort itself out as the quality of local IT staff will speak for itself but I fear a lot of short term pain in the UK IT sector for local contractors especially but even perms will feel the heat when 2 x Tier 2 workers will still be cheaper than hiring one of them

Yeah, I think the flooding will hit us soon. You say, this will sort itself out. The question is, when will that happen? 10, 20 years from now?

[uk contractor]

Other European countries are not nearly as keen on offshoring as the UK is. They value having people on-site. People who can readily communicate, understand and share the same values. For that reason, companies elsewhere in Europe tend to always have at a minimum a core team of EU staff who runs the show, and only then allow parts of the work to be performed elsewhere.

E.g., they understand the value of collaboration and the actual cost that comes with offshoring to a location with far lower rates (on paper).

Carnage in Indian IT? As Wipro fires 500, here is what other cos are doing | Business Standard News

UK has a very greedy boardroom vulture culture probably more than other EU countries is why I think they are offshoring left right & centre. As US H1B target was breached in a week no doubt those 100,000s left with nothing will try to flood the UK (which is already over saturated with their compadre's!). Eventually it will sort itself out as the quality of local IT staff will speak for itself but I fear a lot of short term pain in the UK IT sector for local contractors especially but even perms will feel the heat when 2 x Tier 2 workers will still be cheaper than hiring one of them

[m0n1k3r]

Laying the blame on the foreigners again I see, when we should perhaps be asking the (mostly white, British/American/European) boardrooms and SMTs why they go ahead with offshoring operations in the first place?

Other European countries are not nearly as keen on offshoring as the UK is. They value having people on-site. People who can readily communicate, understand and share the same values. For that reason, companies elsewhere in Europe tend to always have at a minimum a core team of EU staff who runs the show, and only then allow parts of the work to be performed elsewhere.

E.g., they understand the value of collaboration and the actual cost that comes with offshoring to a location with far lower rates (on paper).

Carnage in Indian IT? As Wipro fires 500, here is what other cos are doing | Business Standard News

[NotAllThere]

...
On another note: why do the English language skills of the posters on this thread make me think they're actually Indian, and trolls?

I've checked, and there's only on contributor to this thread who matches that profile.