Reply to: End client refusing to authorise final timesheet

[northernladuk]

"Reasonable" is finally determined by the judge.

Companies not run by complete crooks ensure things are concluded before a judge rules as they have a reputation to maintain.

Which is really useful for the OP.

[SueEllen]

Absolutely. I take that out everytime I see it but 'reasonable' is the standard fall back which opens a different can of worms.

"Reasonable" is finally determined by the judge.

Companies not run by complete crooks ensure things are concluded before a judge rules as they have a reputation to maintain.

[northernladuk]

many years ago I did some work with CA (before the CEO was banged up for fraud). We were writing an SLA for a client. We were going to put 'best endeavours' in a clause about supporting some Windows NT 3.5 workstations that were out of MS support.
CA lawyers refused as they said that 'best' implies that you could bankrupt yourself fixing something. So the word used was 'reasonable'. It was designed to be mealy-mouthed and unenforceable.

Absolutely. I take that out everytime I see it but 'reasonable' is the standard fall back which opens a different can of worms.

[SueEllen]

If you've got a case then just threatening them isn't reasonable IMO. Reasonable is getting the money rightly owed. Horrible word when trying to do business that.

You have to "threaten" before you take legal action. Obviously you "request" first that you are paid in the normal way.

[Lance]

If you've got a case then just threatening them isn't reasonable IMO. Reasonable is getting the money rightly owed. Horrible word when trying to do business that.

many years ago I did some work with CA (before the CEO was banged up for fraud). We were writing an SLA for a client. We were going to put 'best endeavours' in a clause about supporting some Windows NT 3.5 workstations that were out of MS support.
CA lawyers refused as they said that 'best' implies that you could bankrupt yourself fixing something. So the word used was 'reasonable'. It was designed to be mealy-mouthed and unenforceable.

[northernladuk]

Unfortunately some terms will be defined with the word "reasonable" even if you do get it properly reviewed.

In this case if the OP had been sensible and got evidence e.g. got it agreed in writing that they were working remotely, as the agent is also losing money "reasonable" means they will in turn threaten the client with legal action.

If you've got a case then just threatening them isn't reasonable IMO. Reasonable is getting the money rightly owed. Horrible word when trying to do business that.

[SueEllen]

Again.. Reasonable?? Your agents certainly like keeping it unclear don't they.

Did you have the contract checked? I'd be surprised if these meaningless terms weren't picked up. I would have queried it. The idea of the contract is to make these things clear. Not make a mess of any situation.

Unfortunately some terms will be defined with the word "reasonable" even if you do get it properly reviewed.

In this case if the OP had been sensible and got evidence e.g. got it agreed in writing that they were working remotely, as the agent is also losing money "reasonable" means they will in turn threaten the client with legal action.

[northernladuk]

I think this is the relevant clause in the contract:



I'm speaking to another representative of the agency tommorow so hopefully we can sort something out.

Again.. Reasonable?? Your agents certainly like keeping it unclear don't they.

Did you have the contract checked? I'd be surprised if these meaningless terms weren't picked up. I would have queried it. The idea of the contract is to make these things clear. Not make a mess of any situation.

[Safe Collections]

I think this is the relevant clause in the contract:

If <agent name> has reason to believe that the Client may not pay <agent name> its invoices (or parts of them) in relation to the Representative, the Contractor agrees, and shall procure the Representative agrees,
to provide <agent name> and the Client with any reasonable assistance necessary to help obtain such
payment.

I'm speaking to another representative of the agency tommorow so hopefully we can sort something out.

So what happens when the Op provides reasonable assistance and the invoice still isn't paid? Does the contract have anything further in relation to payment?

[sal]

you are thinking of getting legal over 1 day?
Have a reality check with yourself and get the time sheet signed for 4 days.

^This, nothing to gain from pursuing this.

Next time inform the person signing your timesheets you will be working remotely in advance, if they don't respond you can claim they where informed and silently agreed to that. If they kick a fuss you will be able to sort it out beforehand.

You do realise that the client is not privy to the clauses in your contract with the agency. It's entirely reasonable for them to expect you to work on site only and challenge your timesheet for 5 days.

[Lance]

you are thinking of getting legal over 1 day?
Have a reality check with yourself and get the time sheet signed for 4 days.

[psychocandy]

but even if you worked 4 days on site and the one remote why are they knocking the whole lot back?

Must admit though - I would probably have avoided working my last day remotely. Asking for client to be a bit suspicious this is.

[SueEllen]

You need to start putting things in writing.

Once you have spoken to your agency summarise what was discussed in an email and ask them for clarification of any points. Make sure you CC an agent email address you know that works.

[garethevans1986]

What does your contract say about not getting paid if the client doesn't pay?

I think this is the relevant clause in the contract:

If <agent name> has reason to believe that the Client may not pay <agent name> its invoices (or parts of them) in relation to the Representative, the Contractor agrees, and shall procure the Representative agrees,
to provide <agent name> and the Client with any reasonable assistance necessary to help obtain such
payment.

I'm speaking to another representative of the agency tommorow so hopefully we can sort something out.

[WTFH]

OK, so you are contracted through an agency That means they are the ones you need to get legal with, not the end client. If you already know that the person you need to deal with at the agency is away on holiday there's probably no point in hiring a solicitor at this stage - it will just add to your expense and not achieve much.