Reply to: Permies vs contractors in consultancies

[Cirrus]

It's true, The Consultancy cover all the expenses and this became the permies more expensive. Specially if they need to realoca them in another country or in another part of the country.

Bee do you ever speak in English, as a matter of interest?

[MrMarkyMark]

I've contracted for 5 consultancies as an SME.
Hard work generally and of often a short duration, but have always been treated very well.

2 paid expenses, which were charged back to the client, business class flights and very good hotels both times.

[SueEllen]

Just because you allegedly worked in a crap a consultancy you shouldn’t judge all by your experience, and assuming that the other's opinion are tulip.

I've worked for more than one consultancy.

Some have been run by pleasant people , others by unpleasant people and some morphed one way or the other due to changes in management.

[northernladuk]

So basically, some consultancies do pass on expenses, and some don't.

But yet again Bee makes a sweeping generalization which now needs a couple of pages to decipher and correct. It's always the same. Without that comment the thread would have carried on fine. It's the same every time now.

It's true, The Consultancy cover all the expenses and this became the permies more expensive.

[eek]

Bee has not missed the point. The consultancy I'm working for does not forward the expenses for permies onto the client, and so I imagine that expenses for working abroad can get high (they have to gently remind the permies not to select the highest costing hotels about twice a year).

I disagree that the permies are an onerous overhead though. The consultancy charges the client a flat rate for all consultants, permie and contractor alike and I guess that permies that don't have many expenses offset the others that do.

So basically, some consultancies do pass on expenses, and some don't.

And expenses can often be on a client by client basis. Awkward client that insists on staff being on site - charge expenses, client near half your staff no need. At the end of the day what a company charges for depends on the skills of the clients buyer and the consultancies salesmen

[cojak]

I think you've missed the point Bee

If the consultancy can (and often do) invoice clients for expenses, they'll do it for contractors and permies alike. While contractors give them a lower margin, they're lower maintenance and generally better performing.

Bee has not missed the point. The consultancy I'm working for does not forward the expenses for permies onto the client, and so I imagine that expenses for working abroad can get high (they have to gently remind the permies not to select the highest costing hotels about twice a year).

I disagree that the permies are an onerous overhead though. The consultancy charges the client a flat rate for all consultants, permie and contractor alike and I guess that permies that don't have many expenses offset the others that do.

So basically, some consultancies do pass on expenses, and some don't.

[SlipTheJab]

+1 Another good thread ruined.

[northernladuk]

Yet another thread destroyed by a comment from Bee that either wrong or makes no sense and degenerates in to having correct Bee and away from the topic.

[Bee]

I've edited my post though I should do what you do and refuse to answer you.

You are being rude.
Everybody have the right to refuse to answer, you don't need to say it.

[Bee]

What a load of tulip.

I've worked permanently for consultancies plus contracted for a few. Some consultancies have toxic cultures but it varies by project, and if you are a contractor they tend not to want to piss you off.

Just because you allegedly worked in a crap a consultancy you shouldn’t judge all by your experience, and assuming that the other's opinion are tulip.

[SueEllen]

Why?

I've edited my post though I should do what you do and refuse to answer you.

[Bee]

What a load of tulip.

Why?

[SueEllen]

Absolutely.

Toxic culture is not allowed in the consultancies. The problem is anybody can open a company, hire contractors and call it a consultancy. Crap!!!

What a load of tulip.

I've worked permanently for consultancies plus contracted for a few. Some consultancies have toxic cultures but it varies by project, and if you are a contractor they tend not to want to piss you off.

[Bee]

Disagree totally about the toxic culture and agile (I'm an experienced agile coach) statement in my context. If that's your experience then that's a shame but not indicative of them as a consultancy IMO. They're very selective about who they have as an associate and the process is pretty rigorous. All excellent experiences with them for me

Absolutely.

Toxic culture is not allowed in the consultancies. The problem is anybody can open a company, hire contractors and call it a consultancy. Crap!!!

[Bee]

I think you've missed the point Bee

If the consultancy can (and often do) invoice clients for expenses, they'll do it for contractors and permies alike.

No, not all the expenses can be billable to the client. Why do you think that permies and contractors are treated in the same way?

While contractors give them a lower margin, they're lower maintenance and generally better performing.

Acho que estás a puxar a brasa à nossa sardinha. I'm sure there is an expression in English for this.