Reply to: Getting a Foot in the Door

[Elliegirl]

[QUOTE=SueEllen;2323178]You are applying to the wrong companies and since you aren't a new graduate you are going to have to do the leg work yourself rather than relying on agencies. Agents tend to only put people in the same role as they had before.

There are a lot of SMEs out there who you probably could convince to give you a role to start off with. However it is up to you to find them by seeking them out and networking. Then once you have some experience you can apply directly to large companies and they will be interested in you, and suddenly with more experience agents will be as well.

Also be prepared to move to a different part of the country. I know people in loads of different areas who have had to work outside London to start their career.


I like this. I am often stunned at how unadventurous some people are in that they expect to find everything on their doorstep. NOT saying this is the OPs problem by the way. Sometimes you just have to go where the work is. Not always easy by any means but you sometimes have to make sacrifices to get anywhere. I am a London based contractor but I'll pack my bags for the right opportunity! Good luck, poster.

[flamel]

'interest' is a luxury you cannot afford it seems.

If you can do accounts admin then do that. If you can become an accountant there are a lot more choices available and a lot more interest to be had as there are many different types of accountant.
More often than not a career path chooses you rather than the other way round.

If you go down this path, get a perm job with training - as an accountant you absolutely have to get a qualification

[kaiser78]

OP - Another option is to look at junior PMO permie roles and from there you can move in Jnr PM, then PM and then move into the contract world. Even then this is not guaranteed and you will need to get some good experience under your belt.

[gables]

Upon graduating I managed to land a few accounts admin and credit control type of roles but as accounting doesn't interest me,

Out of interest what did you graduate in and how old are you now?

A friend of my parents told me this once "get a job you're good at, not what you like" - food for thought?

OP, as brutal as this sounds, I believe that you'd be best doing a career rewind and starting at the bottom of where you want to start and work your way up. Contracting is a market that's getting squeezed badly in banking with various culls across the City and Canary Wharf. I was in a team of ten 18 months ago and there are 4 of us left now with one of those having taken a contract in another country's offices to get her off London headcount.

Learn your trade, climb as high as you can by the time you're 35 and you'll then have a much better experience and skill set to command higher day rates. Patience is the key - there was a recent thread about when people went contracting and most were after at least 8 years. As you're finding out, it's not about the first contract, it's about the next one.

Definitely do this. Forget contracting, I'd be looking for a permie job, get in, get working, take it from there.

A little story, my girlfriend at 54 quit her 31 year NHS nursing career (fairly senior) and did a BA Business Management course, is now at the bottom of the tree aged 58, not earning a lot but progressing rapidly, loving it though - re-evaluating\starting again can be done.

[SueEllen]

A good point. It does appear a number of students come out of university expecting everything to fall at their feet because they've got a degree. They just don't get they've still got no skills and the real hard work is just about to start. We've had a couple on here in the not so distant past.

One of the issues, and I didn't realise this until I was watching a series about the 20th century on the Beeb, is older people even with degrees tended to work part-time as teenagers.

So we ended up with real workplace customer service skills, team working skills, admin skills, etc so when we got our first sh*tty proper post-degree jobs we were simply glad not to be paid a complete pittance to do some of the same work. The fact that we were gradually also given more interesting tasks to do as well helped.

[SueEllen]

I would have thought you stand half a chance of landing something in the banking/compliance area.

You need to understand the Market can be very tough. There is evidence (on this channel) it is particularly bad at the moment.

For my most recent contract, I applied for 133 roles and took 8 months to get a job. The worst campaign I suffered was 213 roles and 23months.

Just keep plugging away and something will pop out the woodwork.

But you have clearly identified specialist skills.

The OP has done a role in the past few years where the only transferable skills are due to their accountancy admin experience.

If the OP had clearly specialist skills and was starting out but couldn't get a break in London or didn't like particular places in the UK, I would tell them to see if any company abroad is interested in you. Lots of them are happy to employ British STEM graduates and you can get to live in a capital/major city in another country.

[Cirrus]

It's a numbers game.

I'm beyond frustrated and don't know what to do now. I've been applying for both permanent and contract roles but so far have had no interviews.

I would have thought you stand half a chance of landing something in the banking/compliance area.

You need to understand the Market can be very tough. There is evidence (on this channel) it is particularly bad at the moment.

For my most recent contract, I applied for 133 roles and took 8 months to get a job. The worst campaign I suffered was 213 roles and 23months.

Just keep plugging away and something will pop out the woodwork.

[LondonManc]

A good point. It does appear a number of students come out of university expecting everything to fall at their feet because they've got a degree. They just don't get they've still got no skills and the real hard work is just about to start. We've had a couple on here in the not so distant past.

The other thing that they don't realise is that every year above them has a set of people with degrees, who are also racking up the experience.

OP, as brutal as this sounds, I believe that you'd be best doing a career rewind and starting at the bottom of where you want to start and work your way up. Contracting is a market that's getting squeezed badly in banking with various culls across the City and Canary Wharf. I was in a team of ten 18 months ago and there are 4 of us left now with one of those having taken a contract in another country's offices to get her off London headcount.

Learn your trade, climb as high as you can by the time you're 35 and you'll then have a much better experience and skill set to command higher day rates. Patience is the key - there was a recent thread about when people went contracting and most were after at least 8 years. As you're finding out, it's not about the first contract, it's about the next one.

[northernladuk]

'interest' is a luxury you cannot afford it seems.

If you can do accounts admin then do that. If you can become an accountant there are a lot more choices available and a lot more interest to be had as there are many different types of accountant.
More often than not a career path chooses you rather than the other way round.

A good point. It does appear a number of students come out of university expecting everything to fall at their feet because they've got a degree. They just don't get they've still got no skills and the real hard work is just about to start. We've had a couple on here in the not so distant past.

[Lance]

Upon graduating I managed to land a few accounts admin and credit control type of roles but as accounting doesn't interest me,

'interest' is a luxury you cannot afford it seems.

If you can do accounts admin then do that. If you can become an accountant there are a lot more choices available and a lot more interest to be had as there are many different types of accountant.
More often than not a career path chooses you rather than the other way round.

[northernladuk]

Just to add, dipping in and out of contracting won't help. Permies will see this and assume you are there just to skill up and leave rather than being commited to the job.

[DieScum]

Currently you're at a stage in your career where you need to catch a break. In your shoes I'd be very actively looking for those breaks (might take months, maybe years, maybe days) and focus on being super impressive when the inevitable opportunity comes up. I'd get as many certificates as possible (600 quid isn't a lot in the schemes of things), extra study (open university, edx, coursera), go to networking events (meetup.com stuff), try and get speaking slots at those events (pretty easy to do) and maybe look at inventing your own business opportunities in your chosen niche (offer services direct to small business, write articles).

I've had two 'oh dear, I'm going to need a break here' moments in my career and they both worked out great.

Last one went like this :
12 months off - twelve months unable to work due to visa, so holiday/travel/side business/learning/worrying
4 months - depressing, hard, humbling job search in new area
6 months contract - depressing entry level contract in new area on depressing money
18 months contract - team lead project role in new area on mediocre money
18 months perm - high paying role in new area
... as of Dec 1st this year. Permie promotion. Part of leadership team on very good money

At every step had no idea what would come next, just hope, but kept working hard doing the right things. With hindsight it looks like stepping stones. Such a natural progression.

Very happy at the moment but I'd walk away tomorrow and do it all again in a new area and be confident I'd climb to the top. I'm sure I'll have to do that a few more times before I die - and I look forward to it.

So heads up, focus on using your 24 hours in the day better than every other competitor for roles out there, and be ready for the break when it comes.

[squarepeg]

It's not looking good. I would look at getting a perm job with a startup (10-20 people, second round of funding). If you desperately want to end up in banking, try a fintech startup.

[SueEllen]

What exactly is PPI complaints? Were you that guy that trying to convince me I'm entitled to a payout?

It's the people who do the admin for the PPI misselling claims e.g. work out how much they need to pay back people who have complained.

I knew people who did similar years ago with the pensions fiasco. They however were permanent so were made redundant when not needed. Some had done financial qualifications while doing the role so took other roles in the finance, others went back to do another degree to change direction, and others just took any job.

[SueEllen]

Thanks for your honest evaluation. However, what can I do when even junior PM/BA roles require experience?

You are applying to the wrong companies and since you aren't a new graduate you are going to have to do the leg work yourself rather than relying on agencies. Agents tend to only put people in the same role as they had before.

There are a lot of SMEs out there who you probably could convince to give you a role to start off with. However it is up to you to find them by seeking them out and networking. Then once you have some experience you can apply directly to large companies and they will be interested in you, and suddenly with more experience agents will be as well.

Also be prepared to move to a different part of the country. I know people in loads of different areas who have had to work outside London to start their career.

Oh and don't pay for any more courses until you have some experience in the role as you are throwing your money away.