Reply to: State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

I can very much imagine individuals companies or agents having lists of people they won’t go near again but I doubt there are industry wide ones as there isn’t any incentive for them to help w rival out.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Indeed, if its truly urgent you end up working there the next day with the contract paper signature still wet. References and checks be damned.

This is usually how I get work, from people who are in a real hurry. Not because my references would be poor but there is a real incentive to get started.

Based on what you have typed in, I am not sure I would quit my permie role, I would be looking to take a holiday break from the permie role and then hand in my notice once you have started at least one complete day on the contract and can validate that its real.

Yeah well the agent (and/or possibly the client) clearly doesn't want me to get this gig in any case so that's the end of that.

[Dorkeaux]

Doesn't surprise me, in fact I would have expected it back in the days out outside IR35. We want to act like companies so nothing wrong with a client having a list of suppliers they've had issues with and not to do business with again. And now it's moved to inside IR35 I don't see why they wouldn't continue a list of contractors they don't want to work with. I had one when I was a LTD. I knew which companies I didn't want to go back to or wouldn't bother applying for. Same thing.

I'm astonished you are astonished for the reasons mention above. I very much doubt it's just down to some bellend. A contractor get's let go and they must keep a log of it should said contractor come and sue them and one part of logging that data is to add 'don't hire again'. What astonishes you about that? Sounds totally reasonable to me.


Nothing wrong with trying but chance of getting to the right person that is aware of this list and is willing to take you off it just on your say so is going to be negligble. If fact if I was the client HR and you called, I checked your record and it says 'troublemaker' and then you start gobbing off on the phone you've double sealed your fate. I can't see how that option is going to work at all.

If there is nothing to lose the a GDPR request would be interesting but again it's likely to decrease the chances of a hire again. Sometimes you've got to appreciate things are what they are, bite the bullet and forget this client.

I doubt the ClientCo HR blacklist lists the one-man limited company name.
It will be the contractor name that is blacklisted.

Also, ClientCo isn't wringing their hands over being on your one man band tulip list. No one cares.
On the other hand, ClientCos that have a greater annual turnover than that GDP of most countries have blacklists that matter.
They are obviously not the same thing.

It bothers me that (as one writer put it) the door is locked silently behind you.

[Bluenose]

The agent from last week was hilarious. The gig is an urgent immediate start so I said I'd gladly walk out of my permie job and start the contract. He starts getting all 1950s "well that doesn't look very good - what about references?"
FFS - is it urgent or not?

Indeed, if its truly urgent you end up working there the next day with the contract paper signature still wet. References and checks be damned.

This is usually how I get work, from people who are in a real hurry. Not because my references would be poor but there is a real incentive to get started.

Based on what you have typed in, I am not sure I would quit my permie role, I would be looking to take a holiday break from the permie role and then hand in my notice once you have started at least one complete day on the contract and can validate that its real.

[northernladuk]

I did a little research, and come to find that a lot of big companies maintain blacklists.
It seems that this is legal, as long as you don't compile or use compiled lists across companies.
In the UK. In spite of GDPR.

Doesn't surprise me, in fact I would have expected it back in the days out outside IR35. We want to act like companies so nothing wrong with a client having a list of suppliers they've had issues with and not to do business with again. And now it's moved to inside IR35 I don't see why they wouldn't continue a list of contractors they don't want to work with. I had one when I was a LTD. I knew which companies I didn't want to go back to or wouldn't bother applying for. Same thing.

This astonishes me. No transparency nor due process, some b*llen* just chooses a value from a drop down list and you are screwed.

I'm astonished you are astonished for the reasons mention above. I very much doubt it's just down to some bellend. A contractor get's let go and they must keep a log of it should said contractor come and sue them and one part of logging that data is to add 'don't hire again'. What astonishes you about that? Sounds totally reasonable to me.

Were I you, I might call up HR and explain the situation to see if there is a process by which you can be removed from it. Explain the situation calmly exactly as you have. It's a pretty good reason.

Nothing wrong with trying but chance of getting to the right person that is aware of this list and is willing to take you off it just on your say so is going to be negligble. If fact if I was the client HR and you called, I checked your record and it says 'troublemaker' and then you start gobbing off on the phone you've double sealed your fate. I can't see how that option is going to work at all.

If this doesn't work, I would consider investiling a little time in GDPR RFIs to that company about what information they hold on you.

If there is nothing to lose the a GDPR request would be interesting but again it's likely to decrease the chances of a hire again. Sometimes you've got to appreciate things are what they are, bite the bullet and forget this client.

[TheDude]

Hiring manager has learned that I am on the no-hire list due to a past incident in 2022 in which I was unable to join after accepting an offer because of COVID-related issues at my household, as the role required daily office attendance. The recruiter has passed my explanation on to the current hiring manager I am interviewing with. I am not sure what my chances are.All rounds of interviews have been completed.

Sorry but recruiter did no such thing.

[Kprad35]

Today I have been told by recruitment agency that Hiring manager will provide the update by end of this week whether to move with the offer or not, Hiring manager will speak with the previous hiring manager to find the details about what happened earlier.What are my chances? I am not very hopeful most of the time any delay for more than 2 days always result in -ve news.Really dissapointed that not able to join put me on permanent blacklist.

[Dorkeaux]

FFS - is it urgent or not?

Not. The agents are neuro-linguistically programmed to say this.

[Ketto]

I was told i was on the blacklist for a large multinational back in 2008 for not attending a 2005 interview without cancelling, even though I did cancel! Probably a good thing in hindsight, I may have ended up working on something in a Toby Jones drama.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I am pretty sure I am on a "no" list at at least a couple of places.

I am running out of people who haven't worked with me before. I don't annoy people on purpose but I don't put up with any nonsense - it's not a strategy that really works in the long term though.

The agent from last week was hilarious. The gig is an urgent immediate start so I said I'd gladly walk out of my permie job and start the contract. He starts getting all 1950s "well that doesn't look very good - what about references?"
FFS - is it urgent or not?

[ladymuck]

I did a little research, and come to find that a lot of big companies maintain blacklists.
It seems that this is legal, as long as you don't compile or use compiled lists across companies.
In the UK. In spite of GDPR.
This astonishes me. No transparency nor due process, some b*llen* just chooses a value from a drop down list and you are screwed.

Were I you, I might call up HR and explain the situation to see if there is a process by which you can be removed from it. Explain the situation calmly exactly as you have. It's a pretty good reason.

If this doesn't work, I would consider investiling a little time in GDPR RFIs to that company about what information they hold on you.

A subject access request is what they want.

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/ge...ccess-request/

[Dorkeaux]

I did a little research, and come to find that a lot of big companies maintain blacklists.
It seems that this is legal, as long as you don't compile or use compiled lists across companies.
In the UK. In spite of GDPR.
This astonishes me. No transparency nor due process, some b*llen* just chooses a value from a drop down list and you are screwed.

Were I you, I might call up HR and explain the situation to see if there is a process by which you can be removed from it. Explain the situation calmly exactly as you have. It's a pretty good reason.

If this doesn't work, I would consider investiling a little time in GDPR RFIs to that company about what information they hold on you.

[Kprad35]

No hiring list maintained by end client company ( Agent never mainstains such list as long as you are able to clear the interview) - I noticed this in few companies while raising request for access , I saw a drop down value "Not to be hired again".Looks like no hire list flagged up when it reaches to offer stage.I am quite dissapointed previously i wanted to join but due to circumstances I couldnt.

[avonleigh]

Sorry to hear it.

That brings up an interesting point. At the risk of setting off the tinfoil hat enthusiasts.

What do you mean by "no-hire list"? Is this kept by the client, the agency or is it shared more broadly?
It sounds from your description like the ClientCo is keeping a naughty list.

I would expect an individual agent to remember past insults, perhaps a vetting company, but I haven't actually seen any evidence of anyone in our industry doing this.

Years ago I was told by an agent there was a blacklist which was shared with all agencies. It's a load of nonsense and purely one of the devious tactics they use to get you to tow their line. I also don't believe clients have blacklists either. Have known people go back to clients when they have left under a cloud. All depends if anyone involved in the hiring process is still around or holds grudges. But even in the permie world people move around regularly so often it wouldn't even be an issue anyway.

[Dorkeaux]

Sorry to hear it.

That brings up an interesting point. At the risk of setting off the tinfoil hat enthusiasts.

What do you mean by "no-hire list"? Is this kept by the client, the agency or is it shared more broadly?
It sounds from your description like the ClientCo is keeping a naughty list.

I would expect an individual agent to remember past insults, perhaps a vetting company, but I haven't actually seen any evidence of anyone in our industry doing this.