Reply to: State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

In reality, and with 25yrs of IT experience, I can say it's not worth much tbh.

25yrs of experience just says, I have worked on old systems. Probably not what the client wants.

In the last 5yrs, I have been quite lucky that I have been exposed to the latest tech. That in essence is worth more than having dinasor experience in old languages that everyone has stopped using.

I really try to keep current, very difficult with IT, but having experience Vs having the latest tech, especially with permi roles, the client will always chose latest tech.

Contracting, might get way with having worked on something previously but those days are getting fewer and non-existent. One example, is SharePoint, I have loads of dev experience but then who uses it now? And if I do find a client that is still using it, would I want to then invest further time into it?

Real world means we should always be looking to add to our toolsets, we have to be our own salesperson and demonstrating that we have new, fresh ideas and approaches whilst still having a wealth of experience has usually helped.

Although saying all that, I have had 1 interview this month which did not go well. They have even reached a ceasefire in the ME with me still not finding a contract.

I have been going over 25 years which has gone from green screen terminals, networked PCs, the rise of the internet through to mobile phones. All of these were new once and all picked up by me and others. Plus age isn't a barrier to picking up new tech.

[t0bytoo]

The questions are not easy to solve. They usually require some planning and investigation in order to solve the problem.

For example, please write a web service that will accept a JSON input comprising of apples and oranges. Return a JSON object comprising the total number of oranges squared and added to the total apples which are green.

Usually not something we're the entire test can be googled or ai....

I pasted your example into Claude AI and got some commented code with error handling and some sample test data. Easily good enough to submit to a 'tech test'

[SchumiStars]

In reality, and with 25yrs of IT experience, I can say it's not worth much tbh.

25yrs of experience just says, I have worked on old systems. Probably not what the client wants.

In the last 5yrs, I have been quite lucky that I have been exposed to the latest tech. That in essence is worth more than having dinasor experience in old languages that everyone has stopped using.

I really try to keep current, very difficult with IT, but having experience Vs having the latest tech, especially with permi roles, the client will always chose latest tech.

Contracting, might get way with having worked on something previously but those days are getting fewer and non-existent. One example, is SharePoint, I have loads of dev experience but then who uses it now? And if I do find a client that is still using it, would I want to then invest further time into it?

Real world means we should always be looking to add to our toolsets, we have to be our own salesperson and demonstrating that we have new, fresh ideas and approaches whilst still having a wealth of experience has usually helped.

Although saying all that, I have had 1 interview this month which did not go well. They have even reached a ceasefire in the ME with me still not finding a contract.

[quackhandle]

I got my last gig because I was old - i.e. experience.

Yes, it needs a bit of luck but it does happen.

qh

[hobnob]

How do you get perm work after contracting for decades???

I've been offered permanent roles when I've done inside IR35 contracts. I.e. I've gone in as a contractor, and they've said "Would you like to stay here long-term?" I've turned them down, but that's one way to get your foot in the door.

[willendure]

How do you get perm work after contracting for decades???

Anyone has any success?

Applied for lots but nothing …they seem to not want contractors and want career perms.

any tips?

My Dad did it when he was at least 65. Worked as a contractor since around age 30. He was a chartered engineer and went to a job fair, got talking to someone who sized him up for a perm role as head engineer. Just a single data point of course, but suggests that establishing some kind of personal connection is going to help, and some kind of position that would need your maturity and experience. I think there are openings like this, especially when you consider that the boomers are a big generation now fading into retirement, that has to leave some senior holes in the workforce to aim for.

[Cookielove]

My CV is condensed to 2 pages it’s not the CV it’s the fact that age and experience ain’t valued…

A lot of the hirers are in their 30s/40s and they don’t necessarily want people that know more than them so they won’t hire “experience” they go for cheaper and less experience…

Perm is becoming impossible as lots of places anti contractors …even though you could do the job and some ….

[SussexSeagull]

For sure, but there's also a fair amount of bums-on-seats type of "contractors" who aren't worth half the money they are paid. The amount of times I've heard "it's so hard to find a good contractor" is ridiculous and I've also worked with loads of pretty mediocre people costing clients loads of money. Sure you can easily have a proper job interview and check if someone is good or not, but why bother if you can get a 30-35yo who has 10yrs in the latest tech and works for half the money the contractor wants?

I'd say it really depends on your experience with contractors, it's like you often see when there's a re-org and you suddenly get someone who's anti-contractor and sacks the lot, or someone who's very pro-contractor and takes on even more of them knowing damn well they all can get the boot when the job is done (and done well if you have the right people).

Problem is a lot of clients don't want decent contractors who will contribute to the success of a project while trying to avoid internal politics, don't have the distraction of career progression and can speak with authority and candour when necessary before leaving after the work has finished.

Most have decided the way they do it is best and can't be improved by anyone with recent experience. Plus any of the technical disciplines just seem to be a tick list of technology and frameworks which you need to get through before they even think of looking at the actual person and soft skills.

There are a lot of really good contractors out there. It's just I don't think they are getting a look in anymore.

[dsc]

There are definitely well-paying jobs available for late 50's ex-contractors (I'm one!)

It just requires an employer/client that recognizes and appreciates the experience gained over decades.

For sure, but there's also a fair amount of bums-on-seats type of "contractors" who aren't worth half the money they are paid. The amount of times I've heard "it's so hard to find a good contractor" is ridiculous and I've also worked with loads of pretty mediocre people costing clients loads of money. Sure you can easily have a proper job interview and check if someone is good or not, but why bother if you can get a 30-35yo who has 10yrs in the latest tech and works for half the money the contractor wants?

I'd say it really depends on your experience with contractors, it's like you often see when there's a re-org and you suddenly get someone who's anti-contractor and sacks the lot, or someone who's very pro-contractor and takes on even more of them knowing damn well they all can get the boot when the job is done (and done well if you have the right people).

[jatinder]

There are definitely well-paying jobs available for late 50's ex-contractors (I'm one!)

It just requires an employer/client that recognizes and appreciates the experience gained over decades.

[oliverson]

How do you get perm work after contracting for decades???

...
any tips?

Get a time machine and go back in time at least 30 years would be my tip.

Why would a company take on an ex-contractor in their mid-50's, especially if it's in technology? Yes, it's ageist but that's the reality of it imho, and I'm in that age bracket also. Let's face it, we're dinosaurs!! They want somebody young, pliable, cheap even, somebody who will work longs hours without complaint, somebody who doesn't have family commitments, baggage, etc, getting in the way.

[WTFH]

How do you get perm work after contracting for decades???

Anyone has any success?

Applied for lots but nothing …they seem to not want contractors and want career perms.

any tips?

Maybe get someone to review your CV - keep it short, keep it summarised. You might have 50 different contracts on there spread across 15 pages, but summarise it down to 2-3 pages max. Leave out dates and if you worked for the same client multiple times, summarise that to one. Your CV is your way to get your foot in the door. Once you sit down in front of clients, then your professionalism should kick in.

Also work out who you are talking to when applying for a role, and if they have a clue about your skillset or the client requirement. Once you've worked that one out, you need to keep in contact with them, not rely on them to contact you.

[Cookielove]

Similar age as me and same time contracting …it’s nigh on impossible to land a perm role now

[avonleigh]

How do you get perm work after contracting for decades???

Anyone has any success?

Applied for lots but nothing …they seem to not want contractors and want career perms.

any tips?

No, I have been applying for permie jobs for the last 5 years with no joy. Had the odd interview but 90% of the time don't get that far. Have been contracting 27 years and I am mid 50's. Pretty much gave up on it.

[Cookielove]

How do you get perm work after contracting for decades???

Anyone has any success?

Applied for lots but nothing …they seem to not want contractors and want career perms.

any tips?