Reply to: Working at risk

[psychocandy]

In the end extension came through 2 hours before the deadline. I declined politely as one hour earlier a new contract landed on my desk. Lower rate and further away, but really anything to get away from this place.
Starting tomorrow.

Good timing then from your point of view....

Out of interest - how did current client react? Im betting they assumed you'd be staying and didnt even think that you might not leave.

Did you tell them the circumstances?

[LondonManc]

In the end extension came through 2 hours before the deadline. I declined politely as one hour earlier a new contract landed on my desk. Lower rate and further away, but really anything to get away from this place.
Starting tomorrow.

Well done, good luck and hopefully (but doubtful) another clientco will learn how to sort contracts out better.

[Eirikur]

In the end extension came through 2 hours before the deadline. I declined politely as one hour earlier a new contract landed on my desk. Lower rate and further away, but really anything to get away from this place.
Starting tomorrow.

[MrMarkyMark]

isn't it the best thing to do in each and every situation to "look out for No.1" ? (i.e. If that contract paying £CurrentRate + £50 falls into your lap, you jump at it!)

Not really, there can be many other factors than pure coin.
Jumping for the extra £50 may not be the best business decision, in the long run.

[uk contractor]

Never understood this approach. Leave it until last min and this happens.

IME its due to poor man management skills they think it will make you more motivated when the extreme reverse is actually true!

[billybiro]

That's the other side of this that the contractor may or may not be acting unprofessionally but clients will still have an opinion which can be incorrect.

Exactly.

So given that the client can decide to be p*ssed off and never employ you again no matter what the reasons behind your leaving, and given that you cannot control this at all, isn't it the best thing to do in each and every situation to "look out for No.1" ? (i.e. If that contract paying £CurrentRate + £50 falls into your lap, you jump at it!)

This is, after all, just a "business decision". If the client really does want to get annoyed, perhaps you could always get them one of these on your last day.

[LondonManc]

More straightforward where I currently am. If the contract extension is not on the system, your pass isn't active, so no chance of working at risk. I'd rather it be that way and put myself on the market as required.

[northernladuk]

I had this with last contract. The responsibility lays with your agency to find out from the client if they are planning to extend, & the agency should then advise you.
However, with no confirmed extension (only verbal), I was advised by agency not to return to site until they had received official confirmation & PO from client. To my mind this was not the best way and could have caused problems, & pi55ed people off, so yes I did work 'at risk'. There was a problem insofar as I couldn't submit timesheets via agency portal for a couple of weeks, but this was sorted out via an emergency PO being issued by the client after some major chasing by the agency. It's their job to chase the client, but sometimes their advice isn't the best, or most realistic, & maybe doesn't take into account your relationship with the client. What's your instinct?

What would you have done if the PO had fallen through? I assume you were aware of this and would take it on the chin which is fair enough.

Thinking about the other thread about the client going bump though, if we are expecting the agency to stump up you can see why the agent doesn't want you on site with no agreement in place. You could do the work and demand money from the agent putting them if the client doesn't pay so putting them in a situation.

[SteelyDan]

My contract is due to finish tomorrow. End client have several times said, they would extend, but agency hasn't heard anything.
Not keen to stay, was actually expecting I would not be renewed at all or even given notice a few weeks ago. On the other hand, I haven't landed a new contract yet, have some interviews in the pipeline and one that may land in the next week or so, but not at a very good rate.

Tapping into the wisdom of you all, would you work at risk without extended contract and hope it may ever be released. Agency who normally pays in one week after time sheet signature won't pay me as long as there's no extension and will likely close their portal for me to submit timesheets

I had this with last contract. The responsibility lays with your agency to find out from the client if they are planning to extend, & the agency should then advise you.
However, with no confirmed extension (only verbal), I was advised by agency not to return to site until they had received official confirmation & PO from client. To my mind this was not the best way and could have caused problems, & pi55ed people off, so yes I did work 'at risk'. There was a problem insofar as I couldn't submit timesheets via agency portal for a couple of weeks, but this was sorted out via an emergency PO being issued by the client after some major chasing by the agency. It's their job to chase the client, but sometimes their advice isn't the best, or most realistic, & maybe doesn't take into account your relationship with the client. What's your instinct?

[LondonManc]

And if you leave by serving and completing the required notice without providing the client any reasoning (which, after all, you're under no obligation to give), is it still unprofessional? Will the client still think it's unprofessional?

Talk of the client potentially taking you on again in the future despite leaving due to an "operation" previously vs not taking you on due to leaving for more money is entirely moot. After all, what the client doesn't know, they can't make a judgement on.

Either could feasibly come under the banner of having left for "personal reasons".

Each to their own. If you want to leave a client before completing your deliverables that's your choice. It's not an m.o. that I'd subscribe to if I was only jumping ship for more dollar. Leaving because there were D&C issues, project failings, etc is clearly different.

[northernladuk]

And if you leave by serving and completing the required notice without providing the client any reasoning (which, after all, you're under no obligation to give), is it still unprofessional? Will the client still think it's unprofessional?

Talk of the client potentially taking you on again in the future despite leaving due to an "operation" previously vs not taking you on due to leaving for more money is entirely moot. After all, what the client doesn't know, they can't make a judgement on.

Either could feasibly come under the banner of having left for "personal reasons".

An interesting point but clients do tend to have a view on why you leave and not all contractors are that opaque. In most cases of people I know leaving the reasons are pretty obvious. I've not met many where the reasons have stayed a complete mystery. Sadly they can make judgement on it and even if it is genuine they can still be upset about it. Even if you have the best reason in the world the client can still be disappointed he's been left in the lurch. That's the other side of this that the contractor may or may not be acting unprofessionally but clients will still have an opinion which can be incorrect. Fair reasons or not the person is/was a risk to the business so being invited back still may not be an option even if it was genuine.

[billybiro]

Abso-bloody-lutely. One is entirely avoidable and a business decision. The business decision is to leave a client in the lurch. If you want to do that, I hope there's a huge client base because I wouldn't take you on again because I don't know how soon you're going to p*ss off again.

And if you leave by serving and completing the required notice without providing the client any reasoning (which, after all, you're under no obligation to give), is it still unprofessional? Will the client still think it's unprofessional?

Talk of the client potentially taking you on again in the future despite leaving due to an "operation" previously vs not taking you on due to leaving for more money is entirely moot. After all, what the client doesn't know, they can't make a judgement on.

Either could feasibly come under the banner of having left for "personal reasons".

[northernladuk]

doesn't answer my question - whether you leave for a "bad reason" (extra £10/day) or a "good reason" (unexpected long term illness) you're still leaving, and failing to deliver the same value - so what's the difference? human emotion?

I agree that if you told your client "I'm really sorry but I've got to go for an operation and I might be off for several weeks or months in the follow up" they'd treat you nicer than if you said "I'm leaving for more money" but contractually, it's the same thing, which is why I don't like people (nluk, in this case) using the "it's a business to business black and white contract" argument where it suits them but not where it doesn't

Contractually yes, professionally no which was the whole point of this discussion. The attitude and reasoning has a massive impact on the outcome and the future. Two people can deliver exactly the same thing. One person can be a complete c**t about it and no one likes it, the other can be a consummate professional and everyone is happy. Hopefully in both cases karma will re-visit you later with very different impacts.

[LondonManc]

it was an example, i'll rephrase

why is there a difference? is there a difference in the business relationship if you're leaving for £10/d more elsewhere or because you're going for a big operation (assuming you invoke and fulfil the contractual notice clause in both cases)?

on the one hand you seem to be pro "business-to-business" talk but on the other you're saying it's unprofessional if you do things for certain reasons?

Abso-bloody-lutely. One is entirely avoidable and a business decision. The business decision is to leave a client in the lurch. If you want to do that, I hope there's a huge client base because I wouldn't take you on again because I don't know how soon you're going to p*ss off again.

[MrMarkyMark]

doesn't answer my question - whether you leave for a "bad reason" (extra £10/day) or a "good reason" (unexpected long term illness) you're still leaving, and failing to deliver the same value - so what's the difference? human emotion?

The business point being is they are, possibly, more likely to re-engage you, in the future, if you had to leave due to illness, versus leaving for more money.

contractually, it's the same thing, which is why I don't like people (nluk, in this case) using the "it's a business to business black and white contract" argument where it suits them but not where it doesn't.

Agreed, its the same in the black and white contract sense, but there is a lot more to a contract than just what is written on a piece of paper.
Professionalism has to come into it.
I would suggest that leaving for sickness is a hell of a lot of different than just leaving for more coin.

My "world" is very small, so reputation is everything in what I do.