Reply to: 3 month gig - PM says no hols not even one day!

[LondonManc]

Had a similar situation recently. Told client their request was outside of my contract, and whether other people did it or not was not my concern because I'm not other people. It wasn't convenient for me, it was in my opinion an unnecessary request so I didn't do it. I also expected a termination but didn't get it (yet!)

Well done. Every case on its merits and all that. Even if it was convenient, then I'd want a renegotiation of the contract.

[psychocandy]

Had a similar situation recently. Told client their request was outside of my contract, and whether other people did it or not was not my concern because I'm not other people. It wasn't convenient for me, it was in my opinion an unnecessary request so I didn't do it. I also expected a termination but didn't get it (yet!)

The old "Well everyone else is doing it"....

[ceebeepps]

Had a similar situation recently. Told client their request was outside of my contract, and whether other people did it or not was not my concern because I'm not other people. It wasn't convenient for me, it was in my opinion an unnecessary request so I didn't do it. I also expected a termination but didn't get it (yet!)

[LondonManc]

Sounds like something said after the event, rather than being part of the contract.....
This is real Direction and Control as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with you when it's put in the context of the OP; I'd want a rewrite of the contract to cover myself if that's what's expected of me. I'd want fair reward for in effect handing over a quarter of a year of my life to someone, i.e. 50 grand.

[MrMarkyMark]

Depends on the contract, surely? If the terms of engagement are that he is required to deliver the project within the given timescales and that a six day working week is stipulated because it is a short term, high volume gig then what breach is there?

Asked him at interview - any hols. Nope nothing substantial just odd day maybe.

Hes been there three weeks. Advised PM that 4 weeks time he wouldn't be there because of hospital appt.

PM has now said - sorry no days off at all. We've got a deadline so I need everyone there every day. And BTW you're all down to work every Saturday for the next month - not negotiable.?

Sounds like something said after the event, rather than being part of the contract.....
This is real Direction and Control as far as I'm concerned.

[LondonManc]

Becasue should he ever be subject to a tax investigation, the first thing they will do is contact his previous clients and enquire about working practices. All it takes is one word from HR or the PM at the client and he's screwed regardless of what the contract says.

Depends on the contract, surely? If the terms of engagement are that he is required to deliver the project within the given timescales and that a six day working week is stipulated because it is a short term, high volume gig then what breach is there?

[DaveB]

How would HMRC know whether he is within IR35 or not ? He would be billing for 24 days (or 26 days if it's 1.5 times weekend rate). It's not like HMRC looks at your individual invoices.

Becasue should he ever be subject to a tax investigation, the first thing they will do is contact his previous clients and enquire about working practices. All it takes is one word from HR or the PM at the client and he's screwed regardless of what the contract says.

[MrMarkyMark]

How would HMRC know whether he is within IR35 or not ? He would be billing for 24 days (or 26 days if it's 1.5 times weekend rate). It's not like HMRC looks at your individual invoices.

Pretty poor response. Well of course they wouldn't.

However, would I want to be in his shoes, if he was investigated and they asked about his working practices?
No I wouldn't.

[jbond007]

Talk about being under direct control of the client!! Even Stevie Wonder can see this is totally inside IR35, hope he's making allowance for the extra tax and NI that HMRC may be asking for at some point

How would HMRC know whether he is within IR35 or not ? He would be billing for 24 days (or 26 days if it's 1.5 times weekend rate). It's not like HMRC looks at your individual invoices.

[SussexSeagull]

He doesn't need to invoke notice, he can simply say "I am not working Saturdays" and they can decide to can him.

This is the way forward. Bet you the PM folds though.

[d000hg]

what is his notice period? I'd be out of there...

He doesn't need to invoke notice, he can simply say "I am not working Saturdays" and they can decide to can him.

[Pherlopolus]

The notice period is probably utterly irrelevant. The terms of the contract have changed and would have to be mutually agreed. If he doesn't need the cash and doesn't mind being worked I would be telling the manager exactly where to go

The contract may say "work days as defined by the PM", we don't know...

[eek]

what is his notice period? I'd be out of there...

The notice period is probably utterly irrelevant. The terms of the contract have changed and would have to be mutually agreed. If he doesn't need the cash and doesn't mind being worked I would be telling the manager exactly where to go

[BolshieBastard]

Not me. Mate of mine. Almost a gig he got me onto as well - lucky escape....

Asked him at interview - any hols. Nope nothing substantial just odd day maybe.

Hes been there three weeks. Advised PM that 4 weeks time he wouldn't be there because of hospital appt.

PM has now said - sorry no days off at all. We've got a deadline so I need everyone there every day. And BTW you're all down to work every Saturday for the next month - not negotiable.

Mate stays away mon-fri so hes not keen on seeing his kids for just sunday once a week.

Must admit I would not be pleased !!!!!

LOL so the PM is saying your 'mate' cannot have the day off for a bona fide appointment? Id tell him to swivel on it and I wouldnt be in that day. If he wants to find someone else for the job, fine. But I'll be taking hospital appointments off thanks.

As for working saturday when you work away from home, yes, it is non negotiable. I dont do it!

Why do people take this BS?

[LondonManc]

My current contract says nothing of unpaid leave (they often don't) but it does say "<number of days> *maximum* days", indicating an expectation that not every calendar weekday will be worked.

Any attempt to "ban" leave or assert working hours never agreed upon obviously has no basis and has probably been illegal since 1832 or whatever. And this PM - is he the one signing timesheets and paying for the contractor ?

Agreed; for me, though, the key is knowing what commitment is expected before taking on the engagement. If you're feeling fresh and fancy the commitment then maybe a burst of working 78 out of 91 days for a good wedge could be great financially, if that's the known engagement on offer. It's a different sort of service to the "standard" office-based engagement but it's a legitimate business offer I suppose. Sounds like OP's friend is not in that position though.