Reply to: Unpaid notice period

[nrwiseman]

I completely disagree, there is a massive difference. There is no trust with clocking in/out.

I agree. In 20 years contracting never had client checking up on when you clocked in ! Normally if you deliver the work then no one really cares. (Unless you really take the mick).
As last resort they also tried to claim excess Internet usage - turned out it was only during lunch hours which they couldn't disprove!
What a shambles of a company !

[cojak]

If you do end up losing money (last invoice not paid) despite chasing the agency/client, log the amount you lost against the contract (and save in your IBOMOA folder) and make sure that your accountant knows about the loss.

[northernladuk]

How much would you like to lose?

Through not being paid notice or through not being extended, being walked because of a bad attitude or voluntarily put myself on the bench?

[northernladuk]

To me it's not about IR35 being inside/outside and all the tax nonsense, it's about why you contract. I would walk at the first sign of this "Mill Owner" type behavior from a client. Speaking to HR, not just no, but hell no. This is one of the real perks of contracting, not having to "suck it up" and just take it. Sure you don't want to burn bridges and you definitely want to maintain good client relationships, but clocking in for your shift?

You appear to talk a lot about walking the minute something happens. I'd be willing to bet you never have and never would. You just type harder and look a bit annoyed.

[NotAllThere]

...
If they are using your clicking in / out to check how many hours you have done then that's another.
...

There is no difference between registering your time of arrival and departure by clocking in and out electronically, and manually filling in a time sheet with "I worked 8 hours today" and getting your client manager's signature.

It is the same data for the same purpose.

[GB9]

That's too much for his brain.

He hasn't realised the company, Hugo Boss, where kid who got killed when a mirror fell on him in a store was prosecuted under the Healthy and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Management of Health and Safety at Work Act.

Now the kid wasn't working....

What has H&S got to do with SDC?

If you need a pass to get into the building for security purposes and for them to know who is on site when there is an emergency then that's one thing.

If they are using your clicking in / out to check how many hours you have done then that's another.

If you don't understand the difference then good luck to you....

[Intel]

Add to that, the mirror had a direction but no control. Was the mirror within IR35?

if the mirror was inside IR35, was the reflection outside??

[northernladuk]

Add to that, the mirror had a direction but no control. Was the mirror within IR35?

HMRC are looking in to it.....

[LondonManc]

That's too much for his brain.

He hasn't realised the company, Hugo Boss, where kid who got killed when a mirror fell on him in a store was prosecuted under the Healthy and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Management of Health and Safety at Work Act.

Now the kid wasn't working....

Add to that, the mirror had a direction but no control. Was the mirror within IR35?

[SueEllen]

Clocking in and out isn't definitive either. 'elf n' safety, you know.

That's too much for his brain.

He hasn't realised the company, Hugo Boss, where kid who got killed when a mirror fell on him in a store was prosecuted under the Healthy and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Management of Health and Safety at Work Act.

Now the kid wasn't working....

[NotAllThere]

Clocking in and out isn't definitive either. 'elf n' safety, you know.

[GB9]

Firstly there is no such entity legally as a PSC.

Secondly all my contracts have a clause that states I have to prove that I worked the hours/days I've stated. This is not always based on the timesheet. However this clause is not aligned with the notice period clause. The clause that is often aligned with the notice period clause is the dispute resolution clause.

Thirdly I've also had a contract in a place where I had to clock in and out of the building. I didn't have a problem with this as the building was a labyrinth and to get into the building you just showed your pass to security.


In regards to go to the toilet when I was permie I had a job where a "manager" who managed no one, would write down when everyone in his vicinity came into the office, when they left the room and when they went home. Oddly he never got promoted any higher...

Yes, we know there is no such thing as a PSC, but as the House of Lords committee and HMRC, and the Treasury are using it as a common term then standing up at a tax tribunal and claiming there is no case to answer because PSCs don't exist isn't going to get you anywhere.

Getting into a building is one thing but clocking in and out is another completely. And having someone stating that you can only have so many minutes for a wee is worse. And having to sit down with a line manager to discuss it........ I wouldn't fancy arguing that I wasn't under supervision for that one.

[SueEllen]

Not so much the notice period, although I had mine removed on the advice of Qdos. I fall into the same camp as NLUK on this, i.e. you don't do anything, you don't get paid. I do agree that for anyone except PSCs, they are great. Double standards as usual.

However:

- meeting with line manager
- clocking in and out
- how long you can go to the toilet for

And those are just the ones I can remember from last night's scan.

Firstly there is no such entity legally as a PSC.

Secondly all my contracts have a clause that states I have to prove that I worked the hours/days I've stated. This is not always based on the timesheet. However this clause is not aligned with the notice period clause. The clause that is often aligned with the notice period clause is the dispute resolution clause.

Thirdly I've also had a contract in a place where I had to clock in and out of the building. I didn't have a problem with this as the building was a labyrinth and to get into the building you just showed your pass to security.


In regards to go to the toilet when I was permie I had a job where a "manager" who managed no one, would write down when everyone in his vicinity came into the office, when they left the room and when they went home. Oddly he never got promoted any higher...

[GB9]

Nonsense. Having a notice period does not mean, by itself, that you in IR35. A notice period is normal business practice within all kinds of commercial contracts to better enable cashflow planning. It certainly makes sense for an agency to have and enforce notice periods - and that, as has been discussed, can (and should) flow over to the contractor.

What is definitely the case is that not having a notice period helps strengthen your case against IR35.

In any case, in all the years I've been contracting, I've been given notice (and been paid for it) once. That was in 1997.

Not so much the notice period, although I had mine removed on the advice of Qdos. I fall into the same camp as NLUK on this, i.e. you don't do anything, you don't get paid. I do agree that for anyone except PSCs, they are great. Double standards as usual.

However:

- meeting with line manager
- clocking in and out
- how long you can go to the toilet for

And those are just the ones I can remember from last night's scan.

[NotAllThere]

Things I have learned from this thread:

- there are a lot of people working within IR35
- there are a lot of people working within IR35
- there are a lot of people working within IR35

.........ad lib to fade

Are you all paying the correct tax? It's no wonder the rest of us are about to get screwed over.

Nonsense. Having a notice period does not mean, by itself, that you in IR35. A notice period is normal business practice within all kinds of commercial contracts to better enable cashflow planning. It certainly makes sense for an agency to have and enforce notice periods - and that, as has been discussed, can (and should) flow over to the contractor.

What is definitely the case is that not having a notice period helps strengthen your case against IR35.

In any case, in all the years I've been contracting, I've been given notice (and been paid for it) once. That was in 1997.