Recruitment

[kaiser78]

Thanks for responses all.

Just to clarify my part, I manage the PM team in terms of day to day activities, work prioritisation, tracking and reporting. I declared when I started that I would not undertake any line management, performance reviews etc, which was fine and I don't get involved in.

For this recruitment process I will be joined by a permie Snr Manager for each interview, and as suggested in these posts, will only recommended suitable candidates to progress, with final decision being made by the permie Manager.

[Murder1]

Apologies I don't think I was clear in what I meant by "reporting-to" which was just that appraisals/disciplinary/promotions/targets etc should be managed by someone permie.

[northernladuk]

And if your role is Interim Head of IT...?

Using that one as an example, I felt fairly IR35 free, since there was nobody in a position to offer D&C over my work - I had objectives to meet concerning P&L, new projects, purchasing and so on, all of which went through the client's usual approval processes, but that's not D&C - and MoO was clear in the contract although obviously RoS was not really an option. But I can't see how you can do that kinfd of job, or parallel ones such as Programme Manager or Transition Management, without having people reporting to you, either from your client's organisation or externally.

Not sure the point you are making here. Is it my wording wasn't very clear? I said I don't agree that having reports is a problem for IR35 as intimated by Murder 1. Maybe I didn't word it very well but I did go on to say that contracting just wouldn't work if having direct reports put you inside IR35. Of course many roles would have people reporting to them. That's a given really.

What I wouldn't expect is a list of named individuals in my contract and to have exactly the same level of responsibility over them as a perm manager would i.e. career progression, wage reviews etc. I'd be happy to manage their workload as part of my interim role but that's it. But... as you say it's a fine line.

HTH

[malvolio]

...
I don't really agree you shouldn't have staff reporting to you for IR35. Your gig shouldn't have documented reports in I agree but if you go with that line then contracting is limited to small pieces of work at the bottom of the food chain which really won't work.

And if your role is Interim Head of IT...?

Using that one as an example, I felt fairly IR35 free, since there was nobody in a position to offer D&C over my work - I had objectives to meet concerning P&L, new projects, purchasing and so on, all of which went through the client's usual approval processes, but that's not D&C - and MoO was clear in the contract although obviously RoS was not really an option. But I can't see how you can do that kinfd of job, or parallel ones such as Programme Manager or Transition Management, without having people reporting to you, either from your client's organisation or externally.

[northernladuk]

Having done a few Interim Manager roles, I am always very clear that I will not participate in activities that affect a permie's career, such as appraisals and disciplinary actions; that has to be by a permie. The reason is not IR35 but partly because I am not a member of the company and can have no responsibility for its staff and partly because if I get it wrong I can get sued personally. I'm happy to comment on people's performance, and to discuss issues with HR if necessary, but only informally.

As for recruitment, you're being asked to identify the best person for the job. Once that's done, it's up to the company to manage the hiring process. If you are being asked to assess internal candidates though, you are back to staying outside career management.

It's a tricky line to walk on occasion, but I've never had any problems with it, and clients have always understood my position

It is a fine line as the client has you in as a specialist so probably a benefit to him to use your skills/knowledge in recruiting as well.

I'm also fairly black and white about making decisions I believe should really be made by a permie. Recruiting, spend, strategy above and beyond my remit. I'm even more anal about it when the chain is completely contractors. I strongly believe certain decisions should be made by a senior permie and not contractors but it does surprise me how many clients don't seem to care.

Anyway, if you offer guidance and support and explain your reasons to not be part of the final decision I am sure they will understand.

I don't really agree you shouldn't have staff reporting to you for IR35. Your gig shouldn't have documented reports in I agree but if you go with that line then contracting is limited to small pieces of work at the bottom of the food chain which really won't work.

[malvolio]

Having done a few Interim Manager roles, I am always very clear that I will not participate in activities that affect a permie's career, such as appraisals and disciplinary actions; that has to be by a permie. The reason is not IR35 but partly because I am not a member of the company and can have no responsibility for its staff and partly because if I get it wrong I can get sued personally. I'm happy to comment on people's performance, and to discuss issues with HR if necessary, but only informally.

As for recruitment, you're being asked to identify the best person for the job. Once that's done, it's up to the company to manage the hiring process. If you are being asked to assess internal candidates though, you are back to staying outside career management.

It's a tricky line to walk on occasion, but I've never had any problems with it, and clients have always understood my position

[GillsMan]

From an IR35 perspective, I don't think there is much of an issue here. You'd want to avoid things like performing appraisals for the permie staff I would imagine, because that might suggest you're part and parcel of the organisation.

But if you're just kicking off the recruitment drive, looking at CVs for them, even interviewing and recommending to hire, there's not a problem there (providing your other IR35 silver bullets are in place, i.e. RoS, MOO, D&C). Basically, if the company want to outsource their recruitment to an external consultant, that's not a huge issue. The "line" for me, would be at the point where they ask me to do HR type activities (appraisals, goal setting, disciplinary, etc).

[eek]

I was always of the opinion that with regards to IR35 you should not have staff reporting to you whether permanent or contract. You can always provide a senior/lead role into a team but fundamentally they should always report and be managed by a permanent member of staff. With regards recruitment I've only ever seen it where contractors "help" with recruitment rather than being responsible for it. There should be someone permanent in on any interviews or the recruitment process and they should ultimately have the final say on any recruitment.

I personally would insist on someone permanent leading the recruitment with you there to provide help and technical input/evaluation of potential candidates.

Surely people are only reporting to you on a project basis and there is another hierarchy within the company for HR management...

And because you are a temporary resource you really shouldn't be doing permanent recruitment. I would be happy to provide input and evaluate but someone permanent should be making the final decisions (even if its just rubber stamping yours)...

[Murder1]

I was always of the opinion that with regards to IR35 you should not have staff reporting to you whether permanent or contract. You can always provide a senior/lead role into a team but fundamentally they should always report and be managed by a permanent member of staff. With regards recruitment I've only ever seen it where contractors "help" with recruitment rather than being responsible for it. There should be someone permanent in on any interviews or the recruitment process and they should ultimately have the final say on any recruitment.

I personally would insist on someone permanent leading the recruitment with you there to provide help and technical input/evaluation of potential candidates.

[kaiser78]

My contract role involves me managing a mixed team of contractor and permanent PMs, as well as providing 'PM expertise' and process experience.

Part of this role involves expanding the team, ie recruiting some permanent ,which I have been asked to kick off. Question is where do I draw the line as a contractor in the recruitment activities, or does this have no bearing on my external status ?