Reply to: Truths about Brexit

[Zigenare]

The decision might have been made but has it been carried out and will it be carried out?

It's looking less and less likely.

[Zigenare]

You really are a twat of the first order... Thatcher was for the EU

Nice, I post my opinion and rather than have a reasonable conversation you resort to insults.

Rein your neck in and grow up!

[Paddy]

Single Market? Sounds like a good idea.
European Union? Not so much.

You really are a twat of the first order... Thatcher was for the EU

Speech was on May 1988
Margaret Thatcher
Speech opening Single Market Campaign
Themes: Trade, Economic, monetary & political union, European Union Single Market
Subject COMPLETING THE SINGLE MARKET

...You might say: weren't we supposed to have a common market already? Wasn't that the reason we joined Europe in the first place? [end p6] Weren't we promised all this in 1973?

It's a fair question to ask. And the truthful answer is: Europe wasn't open for business. Underneath the rhetoric, the old barriers remained. Not just against the outside world, but between the European countries. [end p7]

Not the classic barriers of tariffs, but the insiduous ones of differing national standards, various restrictions on the provision of services, exclusion of foreign firms from public contracts.

Now that's going to change. Britain has given the lead. [There was a tendency in Europe to talk in lofty tones of European Union. [end p8]

That may be good for the soul. But the body—Europe's firms and organisations and the people who work in them—needs something more nourishing.]

We recognised that if Europe was going to be more than a slogan then we must get the basics right. That meant action. [end p9]

Action to get rid of the barriers. Action to make it possible for insurance companies to do business throughout the Community. Action to let people practice their trades and professions freely throughout the Community. Action to remove the customs barriers and formalities so that goods can circulate [end p10] freely and without time-consuming delays. Action to make sure that any company could sell its goods and services without let or hindrance. Action to secure free movement of capital throughout the Community.

All this is what Europe is now committed to do. In 1985 the Community's Heads of [end p11] Government gave a pledge to complete the single market by 1992. To make sure that it was not just a pious hope, they made that pledge part of the Treaty, as the Single European Act.

So it's going to happen. Indeed the barriers are already coming down. Monsieur Delors, the President of the [end p12] Commission, and our own Commissioner Arthur Cockfield, deserve a lot of credit for the way in which they are keeping up the momentum.

[and more]

Speech opening Single Market Campaign | Margaret Thatcher Foundation

[darmstadt]

Disagreeing with Brexit is a moot point now, surely? The decision has been made so why would any pro-Brexit voter need to expend the effort to defend the position, let alone resort to insulting those of you who lost in the referendum?

The decision might have been made but has it been carried out and will it be carried out?

[Lance]

Single Market? Sounds like a good idea.
European Union? Not so much.

Corbyn's plan it is then.
Or remain and use our veto to prevent closer political integration.

Why did you vote leave?

[Zigenare]

I'll just leave this here.

Single Market? Sounds like a good idea.
European Union? Not so much.

[Lance]

I'll just leave this here.

[WTFH]

Disagreeing with Brexit is a moot point now, surely? The decision has been made so why would any pro-Brexit voter need to expend the effort to defend the position, let alone resort to insulting those of you who lost in the referendum?

Because, strangely enough, the people would like to know what the plan is. The people, at least any who actually care about the UK, would like to know what the next steps are.

Do we leave with no deal? That wasn't on the ballot paper
Do we leave with some sort of deal? That wasn't on the ballot paper
Do we create some way of leaving the EU while maintaining no border in Ireland? That wasn't on the ballot paper.

Thos that care about this country, no matter what way they voted, should be trying to get the questions answered by those who thought it was going to be the easiest deal ever, and all those other soundbites.

[Old Greg]

It’s no skin off mine either. But if anyone’s looking for an explanation as to why the actual process to leave is very different from anything that was promised, there are certain people and the campaigns that they led that you can look at.

That’s the paradox - an honest campaign on the pros and cons may very well have sent the result another way. The actual campaign got the referendum result it wanted, but was then stuck as to how to deliver it to match what was promised.

“The people” are frustrated with “getting on and delivering Brexit”, but it’s never going to match what was promised. “The people” are going to be frustrated with it for a long time if we leave.

FTFY

[meridian]

If that's the justification that you feel you need to be able to justify the result in your own mind then so be it.

No skin off my nose.

It’s no skin off mine either. But if anyone’s looking for an explanation as to why the actual process to leave is very different from anything that was promised, there are certain people and the campaigns that they led that you can look at.

That’s the paradox - an honest campaign on the pros and cons may very well have sent the result another way. The actual campaign got the referendum result it wanted, but was then stuck as to how to deliver it to match what was promised.

“The people” are frustrated with “getting on and delivering Brexit”, but it’s never going to match what was promised. “The people” are going to be frustrated with it for a long time after we leave.

[Old Greg]

If that's the justification that you feel you need to be able to justify the result in your own mind then so be it.

No skin off my nose.

If that were true, you wouldn't have bothered making that post.

[BlasterBates]

This is what Brexit is really all about:

The Brexit gravy train

Nigel Farage was lavishly funded by Arron Banks in the year after the Brexit referendum, Channel 4 News has alleged, with the insurance tycoon providing him with a furnished Chelsea home, a car and driver, and money to promote him in America.

[Zigenare]

In the absence of any evidence otherwise, 100% of the 17.4m were influenced by the short-term Leave campaign and the longer-term campaign to exit the EU.

The question, then, is how much of both of those campaigns were not fully correct - anything ranging from overstating benefits, understating or ignoring issues, misleading statements, media propaganda, or outright lies.

Were people “dumb” enough? Your words. Smart people can be misled all the time, if the people that are setting out to con are given enough leeway.

If that's the justification that you feel you need to be able to justify the result in your own mind then so be it.

No skin off my nose.

[meridian]

I'm just trying to ascertain what percentage of the 17.4 million people who voted for Brexit you lot think were dumb enough to be influenced by what was painted on the side of a bus!

In the absence of any evidence otherwise, 100% of the 17.4m were influenced by the short-term Leave campaign and the longer-term campaign to exit the EU.

The question, then, is how much of both of those campaigns were not fully correct - anything ranging from overstating benefits, understating or ignoring issues, misleading statements, media propaganda, or outright lies.

Were people “dumb” enough? Your words. Smart people can be misled all the time, if the people that are setting out to con are given enough leeway.

[Zigenare]

First we have to establish what percentage of them were clever enough to be able to read and understand it.

They were clever enough to read the ballot paper and could be arsed to go out and vote! That's all that matters.