Reply to: What do Brexiters want after we leave the EU?

[Mordac]

There’s certainly scope to reform CAP more, but you can’t argue that it hasn’t been reformed and then agree that in pure budget terms it’s reduced the proportional budget by nearly 50%. There have been other reforms on top, and more to come no doubt.

If you want dicking around, compare the CAP reductions to the entire fishing industry economic contribution. CFP is a nice drum to beat for the nationalists, but ultimately meaningless in the whole scheme of the U.K. economy.

I can't ultimately disagree with you, but I find it ironic that the EU is happy to hand out multi-billion Euro fines to companies for breaching competition rules, and bans governments from providing state aid to industry, and yet fails spectacularly to apply those same principles to the way they run their own operations.

[meridian]

Technically yes. Only 40% of the EU budget goes towards subsidising inefficient farming methods, keeping prices artificially high and punishing 3rd world producers with tariffs, thereby further protecting the already subsidised farmers. That's either progress (it used to be 70%), or just dicking about, depending on your view.

The CFP is just plain ridiculous. Quotas mean that if you catch the wrong type of fish, you have to chuck the whole lot overboard (unless you're Spanish, in which case you ignore the quotas). How does that preserve stocks? How is a trawler captain supposed to know what is going to end up in his nets?

There’s certainly scope to reform CAP more, but you can’t argue that it hasn’t been reformed and then agree that in pure budget terms it’s reduced the proportional budget by nearly 50%. There have been other reforms on top, and more to come no doubt.

If you want dicking around, compare the CAP reductions to the entire fishing industry economic contribution. CFP is a nice drum to beat for the nationalists, but ultimately meaningless in the whole scheme of the U.K. economy.

[Mordac]

The CAP has been reformed.

Technically yes. Only 40% of the EU budget goes towards subsidising inefficient farming methods, keeping prices artificially high and punishing 3rd world producers with tariffs, thereby further protecting the already subsidised farmers. That's either progress (it used to be 70%), or just dicking about, depending on your view.

The CFP is just plain ridiculous. Quotas mean that if you catch the wrong type of fish, you have to chuck the whole lot overboard (unless you're Spanish, in which case you ignore the quotas). How does that preserve stocks? How is a trawler captain supposed to know what is going to end up in his nets?

[Mordac]

That’s a distinct possibility. But if we’re not taken seriously by the EU, why would we be taken seriously by prospective trading partners such as China, the USA, India, etc.

I agree, which is why I think the best option now is to leave the EU and join EFTA (which gives us the option to join the EEA), which already has a trade deal with China. That is the closest option to the best of both worlds, EU affiliation including access to the single market, and the ability to make trade deals (if we are able to find some able negotiators, which we clearly don't have currently) with the rest of the world. If we choose not to join the EEA, we don't have to accept total free movement, as I understand it.
Plus it solves the Irish border problem.
I'm guessing the catch is, if it were that simple, why isn't the Government pushing for this? Can the EU block our application to rejoin EFTA? Presumably not, as EFTA is completely separate and independent of the EU.

[DimPrawn]

I would bring back coal mining, poor houses and rickets.

[zerosum]

Megathread of the horrifically evil laws the EU have imposed against our will. A grand total of 72 out of 4514.
Jim Grace #FBPE on Twitter: "Brace for mega thread on "ALL THEM RULES INNIT"

There is a type of of brexiter who is motivated not by xenophobia, or Empire nostalgia, or buccaneering trade fantasies, but instead by "all them EU rules". Sadly they can never name a single one. So I have done some research..."

Highlights include:
EU: Ban on livestock growth-boosters with hormonal, thyrostatic or beta-agonist effects (carcinogenic residue in meat).
UK: Aw come on - a little bit of cancer never hurt no-one.

EU: Don't add tartaric acid to wine. And here's how tariffs on grapejuice from 3rd countries should be calculated.
UK: We LIKE adding dodgy things to wine. And the French, Spanish and Italian winemakers should do what WE say!

[Old Greg]

And yet 17.4m Brits continue walking towards the mine shaft because someone told them they'd find unicorns down there

They would still be stuck down a mine shaft. They need to find alicorns so they can fly out.

[Whorty]

Any idiot can see someone fall down a mineshaft and decide not to follow them. It doesn't require education!

And yet 17.4m Brits continue walking towards the mine shaft because someone told them they'd find unicorns down there

[Old Greg]

That’s a distinct possibility. But if we’re not taken seriously by the EU, why would we be taken seriously by prospective trading partners such as China, the USA, India, etc.







Is that why there’s an entire section on the history of CAP reforms in Wikipedia?

Common Agricultural Policy - Wikipedia

That just shows how deep the conspiracy runs.

[scooterscot]

Reading this reaffirms my going 'short' position on the UK housing market when the right-wing loons want to take the country back to 1819. Them prices will do me nicely Although I don't know if I have any shillings.

[meridian]

After what's happened in the last 3 years, I doubt that anything we say will ever be taken seriously again.

That’s a distinct possibility. But if we’re not taken seriously by the EU, why would we be taken seriously by prospective trading partners such as China, the USA, India, etc.

Not that they ever listened when we proposed reforming the CAP and CFP.

Is that why there’s an entire section on the history of CAP reforms in Wikipedia?

Common Agricultural Policy - Wikipedia

[Old Greg]

After what's happened in the last 3 years, I doubt that anything we say will ever be taken seriously again. Not that they ever listened when we proposed reforming the CAP and CFP.

The CAP has been reformed.

[Platypus]

Are you calling Brexiteers stupid?

I'm calling the people the Indy polled stupid. I'm sure they were specially selected to give yes answers to those utterly ridiculous questions. The Indy is a rag of the lowest order, and yet, Remainers post links to it every day I'd say that makes Remainers stupid.

[Mordac]

but at all times we would be in the inside influencing it.

After what's happened in the last 3 years, I doubt that anything we say will ever be taken seriously again. Not that they ever listened when we proposed reforming the CAP and CFP.

[Platypus]

Shows how educated the Dutch are; at least someone is learning from our mistakes.

Any idiot can see someone fall down a mineshaft and decide not to follow them. It doesn't require education!