Reply to: Thousands of UK lorry drivers face being barred from entering EU

[meridian]

Interestingly enough - (after reading stuff) it seems these permits are not permitted for people travelling through ECMT countries to get to non ecmt countries.

"What you cannot use ECMT permits for
You cannot use ECMT permits:

• to travel through ECMT member countries on journeys to non-ECMT member countries
• for cabotage
• for unaccompanied trailers or semi-trailers
• with vehicles that are not Euro VI compliant"

However the ECMT != the EU...

Soo......
will be interesting to see what will happen.

Oh and no cabotage whatever that is - but it does n to involve cabbages!

I think perhaps you're starting to get it now.

At it's basest level, No Deal means that there are no agreements between the UK and the EU, or between the UK and any other country that the EU has struck agreements with. UK haulage operators are now no more entitled to automatically work or provide services in the EU than they are in, say, the USA or Australia or Chile. This is because you voted to take away their right to work in the EU.

On top of that base level, there may be "side agreements". ECMT permits are one example of that. They have restrictions, and are not an automatic entitlement.

[DaveB]

Interestingly enough - (after reading stuff) it seems these permits are not permitted for people travelling through ECMT countries to get to non ecmt countries.

"What you cannot use ECMT permits for
You cannot use ECMT permits:

• to travel through ECMT member countries on journeys to non-ECMT member countries
• for cabotage
• for unaccompanied trailers or semi-trailers
• with vehicles that are not Euro VI compliant"

However the ECMT != the EU...

Soo......
will be interesting to see what will happen.

Oh and no cabotage whatever that is - but it does n to involve cabbages!

Transport of goods or passengers within the borders of one county by an operator from another country.

[Yorkie62]

Yes, of course, the underwriters say we're a very high risk so the premium will be £39bn. They don't take cheques, and they want it paid in Euros as sterling is not a stable currency

US Dollars is surely the only international currency.

[Old Greg]

Interestingly enough - (after reading stuff) it seems these permits are not permitted for people travelling through ECMT countries to get to non ecmt countries.

"What you cannot use ECMT permits for
You cannot use ECMT permits:

• to travel through ECMT member countries on journeys to non-ECMT member countries
• for cabotage
• for unaccompanied trailers or semi-trailers
• with vehicles that are not Euro VI compliant"

However the ECMT != the EU...

Soo......
will be interesting to see what will happen.

Oh and no cabotage whatever that is - but it does n to involve cabbages!

Glad to hear Brexiteers are being kept out of it.

[Whorty]

Can't we get insurance for that!

Yes, of course, the underwriters say we're a very high risk so the premium will be £39bn. They don't take cheques, and they want it paid in Euros as sterling is not a stable currency

[original PM]

Reciprocating will show them who holds the cards. Let's see the smiles drop off their faces when they realise they've crippled the UK's international trade.

Interestingly enough - (after reading stuff) it seems these permits are not permitted for people travelling through ECMT countries to get to non ecmt countries.

"What you cannot use ECMT permits for
You cannot use ECMT permits:

• to travel through ECMT member countries on journeys to non-ECMT member countries
• for cabotage
• for unaccompanied trailers or semi-trailers
• with vehicles that are not Euro VI compliant"

However the ECMT != the EU...

Soo......
will be interesting to see what will happen.

Oh and no cabotage whatever that is - but it does n to involve cabbages!

[Old Greg]

And this is a situation completely of the EU's making?

"Figures show more than 11,000 HGV operators applied for a European Conference of Ministers of Transport (ECMT) permit but less than 1,000 of the annual passes were made available.

The Department for Transport said an additional 2,832 one-month permits “will start to be allocated” by the end of the month, although this is still short of how many are required.

The Road Haulage Association (RHA) criticised the decision, describing the current state as an “intolerable position”.

“When the bidding process for permits was first announced, we said that it amounted to nothing more than a lottery system,” RHA chief executive, Richard Burnett said."

So ok fine we will reciprocate - come on you Euro truckers put your hat in the ring for a pass to drive on UK roads.

Roll up roll up.

Reciprocating will show them who holds the cards. Let's see the smiles drop off their faces when they realise they've crippled the UK's international trade.

[Whorty]

You voted for us to be a third country, you really need to own your decision and understand exactly what being a third party is.

He voted out .... Brexiters don't own the problems they caused. All they can do is blame others, whether it's the EU or Remainers, or anyone else really.

Taking responsibility is not their strength.

Their strength is not answering questions on what they want. They're also quite adept at believing the fantasist view of the land of Narnia and unicorns.

[Yorkie62]

What no-one actually expected was for No Deal to become a possibility. If the deal is signed then there is a transition period to work this stuff out, this is only a problem if we leave with No Deal.

This is completely a problem of the UK's making. It is the UK that is deciding that No Deal is a viable option.

You voted for us to be a third country, you really need to own your decision and understand exactly what being a third party is.

Can't we get insurance for that!

[meridian]

But this is the point isn't it - does this level of bureaucracy actually help trade - whether it's the EU and the UK or the EU/UK and many other countries.

Everyone knew things would change when we left - and many haulage firms probably expected some sort of permit/licence being needed which would have come with a cost.

What no one actually expected was for the EU to not issue the permits when people apply in plenty of time.

Now do you see how this is a problem of the EU's making - they are deliberately making it difficult - just because they have not got their own way.

What no-one actually expected was for No Deal to become a possibility. If the deal is signed then there is a transition period to work this stuff out, this is only a problem if we leave with No Deal.

This is completely a problem of the UK's making. It is the UK that is deciding that No Deal is a viable option.

You voted for us to be a third country, you really need to own your decision and understand exactly what being a third party is.

[meridian]

Isn't diving a truck work? Won't the UK truck driver require a work permit to drive his company's truck in the EU and visa versa.
Maybe the Calais dock workers wll strike on Brexit day just to add to the problem.

I wouldn't recommend diving one

But yes, it's providing Services. Apparently we don't need Services, we need Goods. Goods that will magically appear in our shops.

[DaveB]

But this is the point isn't it - does this level of bureaucracy actually help trade - whether it's the EU and the UK or the EU/UK and many other countries.

Everyone knew things would change when we left - and many haulage firms probably expected some sort of permit/licence being needed which would have come with a cost.

What no one actually expected was for the EU to not issue the permits when people apply in plenty of time.

Now do you see how this is a problem of the EU's making - they are deliberately making it difficult - just because they have not got their own way.

It's not the EU issuing the permits, it's managd by the DVSA in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ecmt-int...aulage-permits.

[BlasterBates]

But this is the point isn't it - does this level of bureaucracy actually help trade - whether it's the EU and the UK or the EU/UK and many other countries.

Everyone knew things would change when we left - and many haulage firms probably expected some sort of permit/licence being needed which would have come with a cost.

What no one actually expected was for the EU to not issue the permits when people apply in plenty of time.

Now do you see how this is a problem of the EU's making - they are deliberately making it difficult - just because they have not got their own way.

well spotted David Davis was wrong, project fear has become project reality, but never mind the referendum is done and dusted.

[original PM]

No, it is a situation completely of the UK's making if we leave under a "No Deal" situation. The fallback default from an EU perspective is that the UK is now immediately a third country and has no more rights than, say, HGV drivers from Turkey. It is this type of situation that May's Deal is designed to prevent, to allow a transition period where these rules can be more defined.

The UK is, of course, free to reciprocate - it needs to design and implement rules that state which foreign drivers are allowed to provide services within the UK.

But they need us more than we need them, so there should be no problem.

But this is the point isn't it - does this level of bureaucracy actually help trade - whether it's the EU and the UK or the EU/UK and many other countries.

Everyone knew things would change when we left - and many haulage firms probably expected some sort of permit/licence being needed which would have come with a cost.

What no one actually expected was for the EU to not issue the permits when people apply in plenty of time.

Now do you see how this is a problem of the EU's making - they are deliberately making it difficult - just because they have not got their own way.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Isn't diving a truck work? Won't the UK truck driver require a work permit to drive his company's truck in the EU and visa versa.
Maybe the Calais dock workers wll strike on Brexit day just to add to the problem.

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