Reply to: The Leave Alliance view of WTO

[Old Greg]

AFAIK Sarg drives a Toyota pickup - favourite vehicles of Taliban and ISIS...

Is that what he told you? That's him on the right.

Behind the counter, obviously.

[AtW]

AFAIK Sarg drives a Toyota pickup - favourite vehicles of Taliban and ISIS...

[meridian]

No Deal without doubt would be the most democratic outcome of the Brexit Referendum. That's what the majority voted for. BRINO, Norway etc are all about remaining to a degree aligned with the EU. The level of benefits to EU trading directly relate to the level of constraint and control. I don't believe any Brexiteers voted for continuing interference from the EU.

The Democratic process is rejecting No Deal because it is stupid not because it wasn't the will of the people.

Only if we’re defining “Deal” as the future relationship.

Regardless of what the U.K. wants its future relationship with the EU to be (and that can range from EFTA through Canada to no relationship whatsoever), there still should be some form of Withdrawal Agreement with the EU. That is laid out in Article 50 s2:

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

Oddly, there doesn’t appear to be anything in Article 50 that lays out what to do if the leaving Member State refuses to conclude the withdrawal negotiations....

However, I would argue that although I agree with you that the future relationship was not part of the referendum, by the nature of the legal process to leave the EU nobody voted for the U.K. to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement.

[NotAllThere]

What kind of vehicle are you driving, Sarg?

So, the politicians advocating this either haven't got a clue or are disaster capitalists. Marvelous.

Some of the proposed solutions have been put forward by McKinsey consultants and the like. So not only have a clue but very expensive as well.

[AtW]

What kind of vehicle are you driving, Sarg?

[shaunbhoy]

I see the flypaper of stupidity is still grouping the gormless together in the "safe-space" sub-forum.

Honestly, the logic displayed on here by the ever-more-desperate Bremainiac division is truly comical.

It is like a vehicle driven by a moronic dwarf in which you can choose to either peek over the dashboard OR work the pedals, but never able to achieve both disciplines simultaneously.

Keep on keeping on though, I am sure your delusional waffling saves some of you from expensive therapy.

[Old Greg]

No Deal without doubt would be the most democratic outcome of the Brexit Referendum. That's what the majority voted for. BRINO, Norway etc are all about remaining to a degree aligned with the EU. The level of benefits to EU trading directly relate to the level of constraint and control. I don't believe any Brexiteers voted for continuing interference from the EU.

The Democratic process is rejecting No Deal because it is stupid not because it wasn't the will of the people.

Very good.

[Cirrus]

"No Deal" would be the most undemocratic outcome of Brexit.

No Deal without doubt would be the most democratic outcome of the Brexit Referendum. That's what the majority voted for. BRINO, Norway etc are all about remaining to a degree aligned with the EU. The level of benefits to EU trading directly relate to the level of constraint and control. I don't believe any Brexiteers voted for continuing interference from the EU.

The Democratic process is rejecting No Deal because it is stupid not because it wasn't the will of the people.

[AtW]

EFTA nor the EEA will take us. There's nothing in it for them, particularly.

Confidence and supply agreement, perhaps? For a good price of £350 mln per week, plus the usual EU fees.

[Whorty]

EFTA nor the EEA will take us. There's nothing in it for them, particularly.

They won't take us whilst the Tories are being led (from the sidelines) by the ERG and Euro haters, but if a moderate government was in and EFTA/EEA thought we actually wanted to join for the long term then they would. Problem is, some want to use them as a stepping stone to 'something better', and that's why they don't want us today.

Our politicians and money men really are making a great job of alienating us from the rest of the world.

[NotAllThere]

EFTA nor the EEA will take us. There's nothing in it for them, particularly.

[Whorty]

Because. They. Lied.

They sold EEA as an option before the referendum to secure votes, and then dismissed it afterwards and started pedalling the no-deal idea instead. No Deal was never on the cards before the referendum. Maybot only introduced "No Deal" in that fateful Lancaster House speed in January 2017.

By "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal", she never meant the withdrawal agreement. That would always have been an 'as things are until the future state is sorted'. She wanted to negotiate the future trade relationship in parallel with the withdrawal agreement. The EU said "non, nein" to that though. May was on the back foot and went and lost her parliamentary majority and swung from incompetent mess to incompetent mess until we ended up with the Withdrawal Agreement we have today - the result of all of her red lines.

And here we are. "No Deal" would be the most undemocratic outcome of Brexit. We would have allowed a minority far right faction (which on its own has no majority in parliament) to set the agenda. May is a complete fool.

Yes, the leave side lied, or at least the extreme right of that (including the scumbag ERG), but what I don't get is that parliament is mostly remain/moderate leave MPs, so why haven't they been pushing for EFTA/EEA? Even now when it's all getting to crisis point, it's still not being pushed.

Remain MPs are still hoping for a second ref saving the whole sorry mess, but this is just not going to happen. They'll not get a 2nd ref, and even if they did, just seeing the imbecilic posts of leavers on here who just haven't got the intelligence to see how bad brexit will be for the UK, it's unlikely that remain will win. Remainers should be working with the moderates to help us leave in the least destructive way. Instead, remainers, moderate leavers and the idiot Corbyn are all fighting each other for their own little piece of power. In the meantime we're stumbling towards chaos.

Our parliament is an embarrassment.

[chopper]

What I can't fathom out is why, going into the ref, Norway (ETFA EEA) was being touted as an option, but once the ref had been run that option seemed to just be dismissed by Davis and co.

Because. They. Lied.

They sold EEA as an option before the referendum to secure votes, and then dismissed it afterwards and started pedalling the no-deal idea instead. No Deal was never on the cards before the referendum. Maybot only introduced "No Deal" in that fateful Lancaster House speed in January 2017.

By "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal", she never meant the withdrawal agreement. That would always have been an 'as things are until the future state is sorted'. She wanted to negotiate the future trade relationship in parallel with the withdrawal agreement. The EU said "non, nein" to that though. May was on the back foot and went and lost her parliamentary majority and swung from incompetent mess to incompetent mess until we ended up with the Withdrawal Agreement we have today - the result of all of her red lines.

And here we are. "No Deal" would be the most undemocratic outcome of Brexit. We would have allowed a minority far right faction (which on its own has no majority in parliament) to set the agenda. May is a complete fool.

[AtW]

What I can't fathom out is why, going into the ref, Norway (ETFA EEA) was being touted as an option, but once the ref had been run that option seemed to just be dismissed by Davis and co. As a remainer I can see the benefits in ETFA; not as good as we have today, but at least not a total destruction of our economy. It would have been a fairly easy sell to parliament too.

2.5 years on ... how did this shambles of a government get it so wrong?

Why? Because they wanted to get the leave votes they otherwise won’t

Just like Trump they did not expect to win, but lies and Putins helping hand got us where we are

[BlasterBates]

What I can't fathom out is why, going into the ref, Norway (ETFA EEA) was being touted as an option, but once the ref had been run that option seemed to just be dismissed by Davis and co. As a remainer I can see the benefits in ETFA; not as good as we have today, but at least not a total destruction of our economy. It would have been a fairly easy sell to parliament too.

2.5 years on ... how did this shambles of a government get it so wrong?

That's right Brexit campaigners would use the examples of Norway, Switzerland and Iceland to make their point about how the UK could be successful outside the EU. Interestingly they never mentioned the Ukraine, which is now the closest model to what they want.