Reply to: Turning the corner on Brexit is possible says May...

[Old Greg]

Actually the EU does value the UK very much which is why they have constantly stated how sad it is that the UK voted to leave.

But that doesn't fit with oPM's Brexiteer internal narrative based on self-pity and paranoia.

[darmstadt]

I just get the feeling we will do better alone than in a gang who do not really value us.

I understand the need to want to feel like you belong to something bigger than the UK so maybe go live in the EU and leave us silly little Englanders to our fate.

Actually the EU does value the UK very much which is why they have constantly stated how sad it is that the UK voted to leave. But then again, by your second sentence, maybe they don't mind just England leaving

[Old Greg]

I just get the feeling we will do better alone than in a gang who do not really value us.

I understand the need to want to feel like you belong to something bigger than the UK so maybe go live in the EU and leave us silly little Englanders to our fate.

What's your feeling for how existing just in time manufacturing supply chains will play out?

[original PM]

Same old crap. You never stop. Vacuous abstract nouns. I wonder if one day you will write anything with any substance; anything specific. Just name one 'decision' you think demonstrates your point. Just one

Every time you come on here everyone thinks "Here's Original spouting the same old religious doctrine" Why don't you spend some time coming up with a real concrete case that might actually support your argument rather than keep making the same ineffectual noises post after post?

I just get the feeling we will do better alone than in a gang who do not really value us.

I understand the need to want to feel like you belong to something bigger than the UK so maybe go live in the EU and leave us silly little Englanders to our fate.

[Lance]

Every time you come on here everyone thinks "Here's UnOriginal spouting the same old religious doctrine" Why don't you spend some time coming up with a real concrete case that might actually support your argument rather than keep making the same ineffectual noises post after post?

FTFY

[Cirrus]

Fact Free Space

You can sit here with these other 27 people and even though you have a majority vote you can still be vetoed and so in effect you are not able to make your own decisions.

Or you can sit on your own table, make you own decisions and then have conversations with those 27 people and another 180 odd - without having to ask those original 27 for permission.

Same old crap. You never stop. Vacuous abstract nouns. I wonder if one day you will write anything with any substance; anything specific. Just name one 'decision' you think demonstrates your point. Just one

Every time you come on here everyone thinks "Here's Original spouting the same old religious doctrine" Why don't you spend some time coming up with a real concrete case that might actually support your argument rather than keep making the same ineffectual noises post after post?

[Eirikur]

If Brexit is cancelled, and they do go on the streets, it just needs to be on a cold day and half of the old c*nts will die. Who's frightened of a rampaging mob of gammons with their zimmer frames?

Remember the summer riots a few years ago. It finished because it started raining and these were teenagers

[Lance]

They even threaten violence on the streets if they don't get their own way.

If Brexit is cancelled, and they do go on the streets, it just needs to be on a cold day and half of the old c*nts will die. Who's frightened of a rampaging mob of gammons with their zimmer frames?

[Whorty]

Back on track with the vaguaries, feelings and opinions I see. The millenials aren't the only ones.
It is at least far more consistent with the hard brexiteers.
Also impossible to measure or prove, so perfect as the experts cannot evidence what a crock of sh1te it is.



Just a thought...... however we leave, how can we not be inextricably linked? Esepcdially as we have a land border.
We certainy can't question it from the outside.


I know I'm wasting my time with this though.

You can't reason with the likes of OPM. He's bought into the doctrine and religion of Brexit, no reasoning will ever work with religious zealots. Trying to explain to brexiters why the decision to leave the EU will not be good for the UK, is like trying to get religious bods to understand that god does not, and never has, existed. Logic just does not work - they pretend to want to understand by asking questions, but they never intend to listen to the answers (I believe this is known as sealioning). The best we can do is keep calling out their bulltulip, and laughing at their idiocy

The irony is that the likes of OPM and Vetran are so fearful and xenophobic of other cultures and customs, scared of extremists, that they miss the fact that they themselves are just as radicalised and extremist themselves. It's just their religion is brexit. They even threaten violence on the streets if they don't get their own way.

[Lance]

There is no lie - whilst we stay in the EU the destiny of the UK is inextricably linked to the EU - and many just feel that the EU is no longer what it was and it no longer stands for what it did.

It's become too big to challenge, too monolithic to question - whether by design or accident, who knows, but it is not, in my opinion, the future of Europe and nor, I fear does it have the best intentions of ALL of Europe at it's heart.

Back on track with the vaguaries, feelings and opinions I see. The millenials aren't the only ones.
It is at least far more consistent with the hard brexiteers.
Also impossible to measure or prove, so perfect as the experts cannot evidence what a crock of sh1te it is.



Just a thought...... however we leave, how can we not be inextricably linked? Esepcdially as we have a land border.
We certainy can't question it from the outside.


I know I'm wasting my time with this though.

[original PM]

Even after the hardest of brexiteers has given up trying to sell anything other than a vague principle of future betteryhappinessmaybe, you still roll out the same sh1te that was a lie 3 years ago.

The kool aid was nice wasn't it?

There is no lie - whilst we stay in the EU the destiny of the UK is inextricably linked to the EU - and many just feel that the EU is no longer what it was and it no longer stands for what it did.

It's become too big to challenge, too monolithic to question - whether by design or accident, who knows, but it is not, in my opinion, the future of Europe and nor, I fear does it have the best intentions of ALL of Europe at it's heart.

[Lance]

Ok i'll give you a choice.

You can sit here with these other 27 people and even though you have a majority vote you can still be vetoed and so in effect you are not able to make your own decisions.

Or you can sit on your own table, make you own decisions and then have conversations with those 27 people and another 180 odd - without having to ask those original 27 for permission.

Now you will say that in the first instance we would be better off because of access to the common market etc etc - however what guarantees do we have that having access to the common market will always be in our benefit?

Also is this vaunted completely free movement of labour within the EU actually all it is cracked up to be?

If we had not voted Brexit this time do you think we would have got another opportunity to leave the EU?

I think the view that the EU is there for the good of all Europe and it will always be so is not quite as realistic as people think.

Even after the hardest of brexiteers has given up trying to sell anything other than a vague principle of future betteryhappinessmaybe, you still roll out the same sh1te that was a lie 3 years ago.

The kool aid was nice wasn't it?

[original PM]

Since this all started, that question has been asked a million times and the Brexiteers have failed to come up with any examples, not a single one. At least my mate BrexiJohn had the decency to quote something to do with light bulbs. He withdrew it subsequently as some fake news he'd got from the Tory press but at least he tried. The likes of Original just spout the Brexit Creed without any thought of connecting it to reality. It makes you admire Trump. He lies through his teeth but at least he sees you need to say something.

Ok i'll give you a choice.

You can sit here with these other 27 people and even though you have a majority vote you can still be vetoed and so in effect you are not able to make your own decisions.

Or you can sit on your own table, make you own decisions and then have conversations with those 27 people and another 180 odd - without having to ask those original 27 for permission.

Now you will say that in the first instance we would be better off because of access to the common market etc etc - however what guarantees do we have that having access to the common market will always be in our benefit?

Also is this vaunted completely free movement of labour within the EU actually all it is cracked up to be?

If we had not voted Brexit this time do you think we would have got another opportunity to leave the EU?

I think the view that the EU is there for the good of all Europe and it will always be so is not quite as realistic as people think.

[chopper]

At least my mate BrexiJohn had the decency to quote something to do with light bulbs. He withdrew it subsequently as some fake news he'd got from the Tory press but at least he tried. The likes of Original just spout the Brexit Creed without any thought of connecting it to reality.

Some dude on Twitter was absolutely adamant that the EU had banned the sale of eggs by the dozen in the UK.

Had to show him screenshots of Tesco, Asda and Aldi websites all showing eggs on sale in packs of 12. This guy's Brexit vote was based on mistaken beliefs about non existant EU rules which were debunked over 8 years ago. I imagine he's still in a state over bendy bananas and the size of the rulebook about cabbages. We're leaving the EU because he doesn't do the shopping.

[darmstadt]

The UK has been one of the most, if not most, powerful forces within the EU throughout the years yet they're throwing it all away for the fantasies of a few vain glorious people who actually don't really care about the average man in the street...

Do UK MEPs win key positions of power in the European Parliament? - UK in a changing EuropeUK in a changing Europe

Britain has chaired the powerful Internal Market Committee of the EU since 2004, continuously. That’s 13 years we have been at the chair of a committee of a market our industries rely on, and on which Brexiters are pulling us out without any plan for what comes next, or any clarity for those industries and those jobs. We also chair the Civil Liberties Committee. In the past – since 2004 – we’ve chaired the Transport Committee, the Economic & Monetary Affairs Committee, Agriculture Committee, Development Committee, and Industry Committee. Key policy development committees within the European Union have been chaired by the UK. Other than Germany, and at times France, the UK holds more top offices than other member states. The UK was guiding the European Union for much of the past 15 years in shaping policy. On EU legislation on which the EU Parliament had power – equal to that of its member constituents in the council – to block or amend EU Laws, the UK authored more reports than every other EU member state, with the single exception of Germany. We were more often than not, over represented in positions of power in the EU. We weren’t the victim sat without any power as JRM, Boris, Nigel – and their incredibly disingenuous Brexit comrades – would have you believe in order to support or give an ounce of credit to the fact that they’ve voted to pull us out of that, and into… well, they haven’t got a clue.