Reply to: Hard Brexit survival guide, and a silver lining

[meridian]

Stronger to negotiate from outside where EU want a deal than in no mans land where EU can continue happily forever.

The only way to get a 'good deal' from the EU is either to be fully in (with power of veto and ability to drive for change of the EU project) or fully out where UK is free to make trade deals anywhere in the world and not beholden to EU.

Agreed. That's called "negotiation", something that the UK government are woeful at, and then the red tops spin it as a "veto" instead of what it really is - other countries holding better cards than us.

Any future agreement with any country can be "vetoed" by that country. We have something that Spain, France, Greece want then we need to negotiate. We have something that India, Australia, USA, etc want (less visa restrictions, etc) then we need to negotiate.

The UK will be free to make trade deals, but that doesn't mean that the other countries are not going to negotiate hard and, if they don't feel that the deal is acceptable, say "I'm out". I.e. veto it.

[shaunbhoy]

Do I have to sew a blue EU flag on my coat?

No....in your case, the huge penis sticking out of your forehead already marks you out as a halfwitted Bremainiac!!

HTH

[Hobosapien]

So, hard exit and then negotiations with EU, eh? And in this way any nation can not veto anything?
Idiot.

Stronger to negotiate from outside where EU want a deal than in no mans land where EU can continue happily forever.

The only way to get a 'good deal' from the EU is either to be fully in (with power of veto and ability to drive for change of the EU project) or fully out where UK is free to make trade deals anywhere in the world and not beholden to EU.

[pscont]

I take it English isn't your first language.

Or is the last word in the post just your signature?

Both.

[WTFH]

So, hard exit and then negotiations with EU, eh? And in this way any nation can not veto anything?
Idiot.

I take it English isn't your first language.

Or is the last word in the post just your signature?

[pscont]

Any one nation can 'veto' the future trade deal so these demands must be resolved.

So, hard exit and then negotiations with EU, eh? And in this way any nation can not veto anything?
Idiot.

[Hobosapien]

France and Spain already showing their intentions for future trade deal demands

The EU nations are already starting to show their intentions to what will happen during the transition period if May's deal is accepted by parliament.

They will use the threat of the backstop and perpetual 'in EU but without any power' (where EU insist this state to continue to access the single market) to blackmail the UK over individual nation's interests (France fishing rights, Spain Gibraltar, ... the rest to come out of the woodwork once May's deal is legally binding). Any one nation can 'veto' the future trade deal so these demands must be resolved. We've seen with the 'negotiations' so far how that will likely go, with UK conceding on all major points as the government is led by business wanting access to the single market.

Only way forward is a hard brexit no deal.

Yet we are likely to get a second referendum following defeat of May's deal, so people will vote to stay in the EU and surrender to the EU 'borg'. Resistance is futile. You can check out but you can never leave.

[shaunbhoy]

Another post that debunks my delusional ramblings. I really am SUCH a loser...

ftfy

[darmstadt]

Looks like it is YOU that needs to read up on the WTO. It came into being as the new version of GATT, an organisation that the UK was a member of since 1947 and we simply transitioned from there into the WTO. Even you will be able to see that our membership predates our joining the EU.



Doesn't mean that at all you delusional fookwit.



Yeah I am sure that the rest of the world's bureaucrats are just itching to invent ways of preventing mutually beneficial trade agreements being kept in place.

You really need to cut back on the hard drugs and get yourself a life. You are beyond parody now.

Another useless post from a loser...

[shaunbhoy]

Tony Abbott needs to read up on WTO for a start and Britain already trades under WTO rules, as a member of the EU

Looks like it is YOU that needs to read up on the WTO. It came into being as the new version of GATT, an organisation that the UK was a member of since 1947 and we simply transitioned from there into the WTO. Even you will be able to see that our membership predates our joining the EU.

which means that all those agreements that the EU have with third countries would have to be renegotiated again from a UK-restofworld perspective

Doesn't mean that at all you delusional fookwit.

and who's to say the restofworld want to listen?

Yeah I am sure that the rest of the world's bureaucrats are just itching to invent ways of preventing mutually beneficial trade agreements being kept in place.

You really need to cut back on the hard drugs and get yourself a life. You are beyond parody now.

[BlasterBates]

Tony Abbott: How to save Brexit | The Spectator











Make it so.

Anyone know if he speaks the truth or should we rely on our self serving politicians to 'do what is in the country's best interests'?

So if the UK simply allows EU goods in without tariffs unilaterally why should the EU offer the same in return



The other thing he ignores is you can't simply reduce or raise tariffs for one country unilaterally, so simply having fun raising tariffs at will to "punish" the EU is against WTO rules. The UK can only decide on a common set of tariffs that apply to all countries. The same of course applies to EU and the "punishment tariffs" everyone talks about are nothing more than the ones the EU applies to all countries without a trade deal. The "punishment" Brexiteers bang on about is simply an empty worthless slogan.

If the UK does want to apply pressure by reducing tariffs through trade deals with other countries it will take years to agree those trade deals. With a no deal the UK will be unique as the only country without any trade deal. Australia does not trade purely on WTO terms it has trade deals.

[darmstadt]

Tony Abbott: How to save Brexit | The Spectator











Make it so.

Anyone know if he speaks the truth or should we rely on our self serving politicians to 'do what is in the country's best interests'?

Tony Abbott needs to read up on WTO for a start and Britain already trades under WTO rules, as a member of the EU which means that all those agreements that the EU have with third countries would have to be renegotiated again from a UK-restofworld perspective and who's to say the restofworld want to listen?

[Hobosapien]

Hard Brexit is the no-brainer, takes an Aussie to spell it out...

Tony Abbott: How to save Brexit | The Spectator

Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?

A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission.

Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare.

Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist.

Make it so.

Anyone know if he speaks the truth or should we rely on our self serving politicians to 'do what is in the country's best interests'?

[Hobosapien]

If the UK wishes to withdraw from the backstop at any point, parliament retains the power to do so instantaneously with a single act of parliament. It would mean crashing out of agreements with the EU but that shouldn't scare a buccaneering nation.

Quite. But in the meantime UK is not allowed to arrange trade deals outside the EU so however they leave the backstop is no better than just doing a hard brexit in the first place.

I suppose the transition period of remaining in the EU allows time to put in place hard brexit plans that they haven't bothered to work on this time around. Back to seeing if the EU collapses before the UK.

[Old Greg]

The biggest issue with the backstop is that it requires EU permission to progress beyond it and doesn't give enough clarity over what is required to ensue EU would be willing to move on from the backstop. i.e. The UK cannot change the backstop unilaterally so are at mercy of the EU that could force the UK to remain in their pocket 'forever'.

I've seen it printed that this would be the first time in UK history that it was locked into such an agreement and is reminiscent to what Germany agreed to after WWI, leading to the rise of Hitler and WWII by way of breaking international law to get out of that bad deal for Germany. So a bit rich if the EU cannot see that and expect the UK to agree to similar.

Don't worry though, we have the 5 musketeers inside government preparing to talk May around to at least trying to get the draft wording changed so things like a technological based frictionless RoI/NI border solution (billions in IT projects, kerching ) or a free trade deal would allow the UK to progress beyond the backstop.

If the UK wishes to withdraw from the backstop at any point, parliament retains the power to do so instantaneously with a single act of parliament. It would mean crashing out of agreements with the EU but that shouldn't scare a buccaneering nation.