Reply to: Next rats leave - Vice chair gone

[Cirrus]

A few less BMWs on our roads has got to be a good thing, yes?

For the nth time: there's no reason why there will be less BMWs. Finished vehicles can take a slower route through the EU/UK border without causing any stress. Prices will remain the same: Current EU internal tariff 0%, proposed 'free trade Tory' EU-UK tariff 0%. The Brits won't stop buying BMWs because they're poorer; they'll just borrow even more. What is at risk is the 250,000 BMW Minis (and maybe Hams Hall BMW engines - up to 500,000) which rely on huge flows of components crossing future borders. But as I've said before, the dirt cheap expendable british workforce may well be sufficiently attractive to keep rich EU countries using us as the Bangladesh of Europe.

[Old Greg]

There are plenty of 'man on the street' videos on Youtube

The question you need to ask yourself, is does the rest of Europe really need the UK now? What does the UK actually provide that the rest of the EU cannot make for itself? Most goods that are manufactured in the UK and exported to the EU require raw materials of which, possibly, much of comes from outside of the UK and, possibly, from the EU. What's not to stop companies in the EU to start making those goods themselves now or tender to countries only in the EU? Whats to stop companies that are based in both the 'mainland' EU and UK just shutdown, or just make goods for the local market only, their export lines? The companies in the EU night take a hit from exports to the UK after Brexit but what this will probably do, is make these goods cheaper in the EU and in the rest of the world for export, no need to provide the UK anymore.

You're missing the big picture It's not about the moribund EUSSR and its legacy aerospace industry. Screw them. This is about the Empire 2.0 export opportunities, with jam, tea and biscuits at the heart of Britain's trade plans.

[darmstadt]

No but rarely do people bite the teat that feeds them.

Again we are being told by big business what is good and what is bad and that is really not coming from a man on the street view point.

There are plenty of 'man on the street' videos on Youtube

The question you need to ask yourself, is does the rest of Europe really need the UK now? What does the UK actually provide that the rest of the EU cannot make for itself? Most goods that are manufactured in the UK and exported to the EU require raw materials of which, possibly, much of comes from outside of the UK and, possibly, from the EU. What's not to stop companies in the EU to start making those goods themselves now or tender to countries only in the EU? Whats to stop companies that are based in both the 'mainland' EU and UK just shutdown, or just make goods for the local market only, their export lines? The companies in the EU night take a hit from exports to the UK after Brexit but what this will probably do, is make these goods cheaper in the EU and in the rest of the world for export, no need to provide the UK anymore.

[Pat Phelan]

Lads, chill out, it will all be just fine in the end.....
A few less BMWs on our roads has got to be a good thing, yes?
And most planes I fly on are usually made by Boeing anyway, rarely board an Airbus

[WTFH]

No but rarely do people bite the teat that feeds them.

Again we are being told by big business what is good and what is bad and that is really not coming from a man on the street view point.

So, when are we going to find out what is going to happen, whether good or bad.

Intransigence is bad. The UK government are guilty of that, not the EU.
Lack of planning is bad. The UK government are guilty of that, not the EU.
Lack of action is bad. The UK government are guilty of that, not the EU.
Lack of negotiation is bad. The UK government are guilty of that, not the EU.
Biting the teat that feeds your economy is bad. The UK government are guilty of that, not the EU.

When are we going to get some direction and movement from the UK government? Until we do, how do we know whether it's going to be good or bad?
I realise your answer is "It's the EU's fault", etc. The EU did not vote to leave the UK. The EU have not tried to avoid negotiating. The EU have not put forward false claims, or claim to have done research in Brexit impact, then said, sorry the dog ate my homework.
No, the people who did that were Davis and co.

[original PM]

Well yes - Airbus, BMW and Nissan/Renault will all be hit by a hard or firm Brexit. They've criticized the lack of clarity and said jobs will be lost but nowhere (that I've seen) have they criticized the EU.

As others have said, you Brexiteers keep on blaming the EU for not engaging in your fantasy world. The EU run the EU. That's their job. They can do trade deals if you've got one in mind. But that's not the issue. You lot want much, much more. You want the many other advantages of being in the EU (frictionless trade, common standards everywhere eg EASA, right to live and work abroad etc) without conforming to the rules everyone else does. We simply cannot understand how you think this is the EU's fault. Or why you keep thinking everyone else does. Listen to what they say, not to what you imagine they must be thinking.

No but rarely do people bite the teat that feeds them.

Again we are being told by big business what is good and what is bad and that is really not coming from a man on the street view point.

[Cirrus]

It will also affect EU business as well - it has to simply because of the difficult of dealing with UK companies.

Well yes - Airbus, BMW and Nissan/Renault will all be hit by a hard or firm Brexit. They've criticized the lack of clarity and said jobs will be lost but nowhere (that I've seen) have they criticized the EU.

As others have said, you Brexiteers keep on blaming the EU for not engaging in your fantasy world. The EU run the EU. That's their job. They can do trade deals if you've got one in mind. But that's not the issue. You lot want much, much more. You want the many other advantages of being in the EU (frictionless trade, common standards everywhere eg EASA, right to live and work abroad etc) without conforming to the rules everyone else does. We simply cannot understand how you think this is the EU's fault. Or why you keep thinking everyone else does. Listen to what they say, not to what you imagine they must be thinking.

[GreenMirror]

Davis, Gove & Johnson were all at the forefront of the Leave campaign and are now in hiding because they don't want to even attempt to negotiate or deliver a workable solution. Instead they are shirking responsibility and moving into the background, just leaving a slimy trail of sluggish destruction behind them.

BJ's face the day after Brexit result was incredible. Slimy scumbag.

[original PM]

FTFY.

Seems reasonable to me.

It will also affect EU business as well - it has to simply because of the difficult of dealing with UK companies.

And so once the again the EU show their true colours....

[WTFH]

Damn those pesky voters for voting the way they did. Maybe we should just have a dictatorship with you making all the decisions? Or a vote every 5 years with the only candidate being the WTFH party.

No, not what I said, nor was it what I was implying - unlike some who have suggested that Farage should be given the job of running the country.

I am saying that there are those on here (and elsewhere) who will blame the EU, or anyone not in the UK government, for every ill of society, and never accept any responsibility themselves - see the post above where the poster says it's the EU that is "willing to throw businesses under the bus", even though it wasn't the EU that voted to leave the UK, nor is it the EU that is the current government of the UK.
The snowflakes who voted to leave the EU, the snowflake leaders who convinced them to, the snowflake politicians who are failing to deliver on Brexit are all running round trying to find who to blame for their decisions and their failings.
Davis, Gove & Johnson were all at the forefront of the Leave campaign and are now in hiding because they don't want to even attempt to negotiate or deliver a workable solution. Instead they are shirking responsibility and moving into the background, just leaving a slimy trail of sluggish destruction behind them.

[NotAllThere]

So once again the EU are willing to throw non-EU businesses under the bus to protect their failing empire....

FTFY.

Seems reasonable to me.

[GreenMirror]

No, you just don't get it. It's the EU's fault, or Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone apart from the people who voted to leave the EU and then voted in an incompetent bunch of politicians to deliver that vote at the following general election.

There's no way that any responsibility lies at the feet of the UK voters and the UK "government" it's not their responsibility, it's all somebody else's fault.

Damn those pesky voters for voting the way they did. Maybe we should just have a dictatorship with you making all the decisions? Or a vote every 5 years with the only candidate being the WTFH party.

[WTFH]

Indeed the UK holds all the cards, the EU will cave.

No, you just don't get it. It's the EU's fault, or Jeremy Corbyn, or anyone apart from the people who voted to leave the EU and then voted in an incompetent bunch of politicians to deliver that vote at the following general election.

There's no way that any responsibility lies at the feet of the UK voters and the UK "government" it's not their responsibility, it's all somebody else's fault.

[BlasterBates]

Did you read that article (admittedly it is the Express but..)

"Speaking exclusively to Express.co.uk, independent MEP Nathan Gill commented on the proposals, saying: “If we present a sector by sector draft trading arrangement it then befalls the EU to reject it as ‘cherry picking’.

“This would visibly expose them as an obstinate business-blocking entity.”"

So once again the EU are willing to throw businesses under the bus to protect their failing empire....

Indeed the UK holds all the cards, the EU will cave.

[Cirrus]

FTFY

So once again the Brexiteers are willing to throw businesses under the bus to protect their bonkers Brexit delusion

The EU have been saying you can't have your cake and eat it for years - well before Brexit started. The UK pressed the eject button; nobody else.

If you open the door and jump out of your holiday flight without thinking, don't blame Ryanair for not providing you with a parachute.