Reply to: Brexiteers won the vote but lost the war

[WTFH]

You credited the main players on the terrorist side in Ireland with making peace for humanitarian reasons

I most certainly did not!

Not ever person on the island of Ireland was or is a terrorist, I realise your Daily Mail belief system tells you everyone who does not believe the Daily Mail is evil, but there are plenty of people in Ireland who were involved in bringing about peace who were not terrorists.
And not all terrorists were on one side.

[vetran]

Vetran, you’d better take your argument up with OPM, not me. I’ve already stated my opinion, you’re the one who is convinced that the Irish were not responsible for The Troubles and it was everyone else’s fault.

You haven’t even read what I’ve written, deciding it must be wrong because taking responsibility doesn’t fit within your narrow minded view of “always blame someone else”

You credited the main players on the terrorist side in Ireland with making peace for humanitarian reasons I explained in my opinion and a few others the reasons were far baser.

I am sure many participants were moved to peace for kind reasons but the terrorists were driven to it. The fact they continued running their organisation's less appealing side in secret tends to prove my hypothesis.

Not quite sure how I am supposed to take responsibility, apart from visiting NI a few times I hardly any involvement. I have friends who served over there and none of them had anything nice to say about the terrorists.

[darmstadt]

Vetran, you’d better take your argument up with OPM, not me. I’ve already stated my opinion, you’re the one who is convinced that the Irish were not responsible for The Troubles and it was everyone else’s fault.

You haven’t even read what I’ve written, deciding it must be wrong because taking responsibility doesn’t fit within yours, right wingers and Brexiters narrow minded view of “always blame someone else”

FTFY

[WTFH]

Can you articulate exactly why the people in Ireland were killing each other for years and why it is everyone else's fault?

Sorry those nice bombers who slaughtered their own leaders over a century found tea & biscuits more attractive than running the crime in Ireland?

The Americans amongst others stopped funding them and they realised Peace was the only option. These bastards blew up women & children all through my childhood they didn't suddenly become Ghandi without a reason.

Vetran, you’d better take your argument up with OPM, not me. I’ve already stated my opinion, you’re the one who is convinced that the Irish were not responsible for The Troubles and it was everyone else’s fault.

You haven’t even read what I’ve written, deciding it must be wrong because taking responsibility doesn’t fit within your narrow minded view of “always blame someone else”

[vetran]

I made some posts about that yesterday, such as:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/brex...ml#post2521489

But it was this post which explained my opinion on it:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/brex...ml#post2521712

Which veteran felt was wrong, his opinion is that Americans stopped supporting some of the terrorists and that was the actual reason for peace, his opinion was that the Irish did not do anything to bring about peace.

Sorry those nice bombers who slaughtered their own leaders over a century found tea & biscuits more attractive than running the crime in Ireland?

The Americans amongst others stopped funding them and they realised Peace was the only option. These bastards blew up women & children all through my childhood they didn't suddenly become Ghandi without a reason.

[PurpleGorilla]

The misplaced assumption with all this is that the EU will remain a solid and effective entity.

The next GFC and the Euro is toast. The EU is not infallible.

[vetran]

Do you hate your country that much, that you would rather reduce a complex and lengthy series of negotiations down to “it was the Americans” than give credit where it is due?

If you mean give credit for funding a bunch of ruthless killers running a protection racket under the cover of fighting for freedom and collecting money from Irish descendants in the US via organisations like NORAID then yes I credit the Americans for funding much of the troubles post 60s, as do many experts.

There were many very brave men on our side who worked for peace but turning off the money tap and hidden support was the reason scum like Sinn Fein came to the table.

[BlasterBates]

Yup EU membership was always the best deal, Eurosceptics don't understand it so we leave and then they negotiate the best deal which is basically the same or as close to EU membership as you can get. Waste of time, they could have checked out Switzerland who had a referendum not to join but has become a de facto member anyway.

[WTFH]

Stek nailed it.

[original PM]

It's a redundant argument in any case. The border will remain as open as it's (mostly) always been, hence no hard Brexit.

That Belgian guy was over here talking to the Dial and being interviewed on RTE all day along with various TD's gabbing on about Brexit and will the UK go through with it and the conclusion was yes, and they will adopt the Norway model, ie EU membership in all but name.

Everyone's happy, we've left the EU, and joined it again under slightly different terms.

The only fly in the ointment is TM saying UK is leaving the SM and CU which would negate the Norway model but then again, when have politicians ever delivered the truth, this whole referendum was based on lies.

It's obvious this was going to happen, all born from a promise to appease a section of the populace that backfired. No-one seriously wants it, part from some Victorian throw-backs with delusions of British Grandeur, you can palinly see whats happening now and what the outcome will be.

Dither and negotiate and fail until no-one cares anymore and it's the Norway model, everyone's happy and nothing really has changed.

Indeed - in fact it would have been better if Germany had won the war and then at least we would never have had the choice - about anything really.

[stek]

It's a redundant argument in any case. The border will remain as open as it's (mostly) always been, hence no hard Brexit.

That Belgian guy was over here talking to the Dial and being interviewed on RTE all day along with various TD's gabbing on about Brexit and will the UK go through with it and the conclusion was yes, and they will adopt the Norway model, ie EU membership in all but name.

Everyone's happy, we've left the EU, and joined it again under slightly different terms.

The only fly in the ointment is TM saying UK is leaving the SM and CU which would negate the Norway model but then again, when have politicians ever delivered the truth, this whole referendum was based on lies.

It's obvious this was going to happen, all born from a promise to appease a section of the populace that backfired. No-one seriously wants it, part from some Victorian throw-backs with delusions of British Grandeur, you can palinly see whats happening now and what the outcome will be.

Dither and negotiate and fail until no-one cares anymore and it's the Norway model, everyone's happy and nothing really has changed.

[WTFH]

Ok so why has brexit caused them to think about taking up arms again?

I made some posts about that yesterday, such as:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/brex...ml#post2521489

But it was this post which explained my opinion on it:
https://forums.contractoruk.com/brex...ml#post2521712

Which veteran felt was wrong, his opinion is that Americans stopped supporting some of the terrorists and that was the actual reason for peace, his opinion was that the Irish did not do anything to bring about peace.

[original PM]

No, it appears you have misunderstood what was said. Meridian was replying to Vetran who claimed that peace in Ireland happened because of the Americans, and not due to the reasons given. At no point did Meridian claim that The Troubles were "everyone else's fault", in fact he was pointing out that peace came about because of negotiations involving people in Ireland, and was not something the Americans could take all the credit for.

Ok so why has brexit caused them to think about taking up arms again?

[WTFH]

No peace in Ireland happened because the Americans turned the money & support off. They were left only raising money through crime and that was a Police matter.

Do you hate your country that much, that you would rather reduce a complex and lengthy series of negotiations down to “it was the Americans” than give credit where it is due?

Can you articulate exactly why the people in Ireland were killing each other for years and why it is everyone else's fault?

No, it appears you have misunderstood what was said. Meridian was replying to Vetran who claimed that peace in Ireland happened because of the Americans, and not due to the reasons given. At no point did Meridian claim that The Troubles were "everyone else's fault", in fact he was pointing out that peace came about because of negotiations involving people in Ireland, and was not something the Americans could take all the credit for.

[original PM]

Do you hate your country that much, that you would rather reduce a complex and lengthy series of negotiations down to “it was the Americans” than give credit where it is due?

Can you articulate exactly why the people in Ireland were killing each other for years and why it is everyone else's fault?