Reply to: VAT changes after Brexit

[BlasterBates]

Yes. It's a lose-lose. Am I happy with that? No of course not. I bring it to your attention because when confronted with a "Lose-Lose" situation the negotiating sides will generally seek to find a workable "Win-Win".

The US Australia deal, is what one could call a lose win trade deal, where the US cut a deal that increased their exports and decreased Australia's exports.

That's what happens when you negotiate with a country that is much bigger than you.

The EU will cut a deal on goods and the UK will agree because it's all they'll get. The trouble is the UK economy is 80% services. The Europeans will be happy because they will still be able to flog their Prosecco and BMW's, and snaffle a few tens of thousands of jobs in Financial services, in return the UK government will breathe a sigh of relief that Nissan won't shut its factory, at least not yet.

The next deal the UK will do is with the US.

[NotAllThere]

If the Germans can't import Cheddar cheese from the UK they can simply import a bit more Gouda or Leerdammer from Holland.

The UK has no option, doubling the capacity of their sea ports isn't really an option, the stuff will simply rot in Calais.

Export Blue Stilton. Then no one can tell it's rotting.

[WTFH]

Yes. It's a lose-lose. Am I happy with that? No of course not. I bring it to your attention because when confronted with a "Lose-Lose" situation the negotiating sides will generally seek to find a workable "Win-Win".

Which would be why a few weeks ago Davis & May were saying to prepare for a hard Brexit and this was seen as "a good thing" by their supporters, but now the EU are saying they need to prepare for a hard Brexit, this is seen as "a bad thing" by the same people.

[tomtomagain]

So you mean it's a lose-lose situation, both sides are "worse off" in your eyes, but you're happy with that, as long as they "suffer" as much as we do.
Except their suffering is that they can't get exports into one of their smaller customers, they'll survive without our imports. Our suffering is that we can't get imports from one of our major suppliers and we can't get sales out to one of our major customers.

Yes. It's a lose-lose. Am I happy with that? No of course not. I bring it to your attention because when confronted with a "Lose-Lose" situation the negotiating sides will generally seek to find a workable "Win-Win".

[WTFH]

The UK has no option, doubling the capacity of their sea ports isn't really an option, the stuff will simply rot in Calais.

And while it's rotting there, the UK small businesses buying it in will have already paid VAT on their pro forma invoices.

[darmstadt]

If the Germans can't import Cheddar cheese from the UK they can simply import a bit more Gouda or Leerdammer from Holland.

Nah, most German supermarkets just sell Kerrygold Cheddar Cheese which comes from within the EU although if you want GB cheddar then you need to go to the cheese counter

[BlasterBates]

So you mean it's a lose-lose situation, both sides are "worse off" in your eyes, but you're happy with that, as long as they "suffer" as much as we do.
Except their suffering is that they can't get exports into one of their smaller customers, they'll survive without our imports. Our suffering is that we can't get imports from one of our major suppliers and we can't get sales out to one of our major customers.

If the Germans can't import Cheddar cheese from the UK they can simply import a bit more Gouda or Leerdammer from Holland.

The UK has no option, doubling the capacity of their sea ports isn't really an option, the stuff will simply rot in Calais.

[WTFH]

And if there are delays, then it will be on both sides of the borders. If there's a requirement for lorry parks in Dover then there'll be an equal requirement for them in Calais too.

So you mean it's a lose-lose situation, both sides are "worse off" in your eyes, but you're happy with that, as long as they "suffer" as much as we do.
Except their suffering is that they can't get exports into one of their smaller customers, they'll survive without our imports. Our suffering is that we can't get imports from one of our major suppliers and we can't get sales out to one of our major customers.

[NotAllThere]

...I used to drive past a queue of lorries several km long every time I drove in and out of Switzerland, and the queue was stationary, I rarely saw the queue actually move when I was driving past it.

They queue on the motorway, then a batch of them will be moved forward. When they've been processed, the next batch is moved forward. Typical queuing times are an hour or two. Except mondays - it takes a bit longer then.

[meridian]

No need for lorry parks if there’s nobody licensed to drive them...

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...-transport.pdf

(Yes, I’m well aware that this will probably be sorted out before Brexit, but it will take a lot of work by either Government or hauliers - or both. The point of both this post and the OP is to highlight increased bureaucracy under Brexit, which is the opposite of what was claimed pre-referendum. Ease of doing business in the U.K. is only going to get worse, not better. If only we had excruciatingly detailed impact assessments that set all of this out....)

[BlasterBates]

Nice quote from Michael Heseltine about the Brexiteers urging Philip Hammond to build lorry parks.

The customs parks they want him to build could become the cemeteries of British trade interests in which the lorries park and wait.

[BlasterBates]

There may or may not be queues. It's far too early to state that definitively. I'll put my money on there not being any, regardless of the outcome of the negotiations.

And if there are delays, then it will be on both sides of the borders. If there's a requirement for lorry parks in Dover then there'll be an equal requirement for them in Calais too.

The government is going to spend millions on huge lorry parks, because there will be huge queues.

Government plans to build huge Lorry parks to cope with the huge queues

Yes there will be huge delays on both sides.

For finished products such as bottles of Prosecco the wait is not too big a problem, for integrated supply chains it will mean moving some operations into the EU.

[tomtomagain]

Have no doubt, the UK will be requiring huge lorry parks, and businesses will have huge delays and huge amounts of paperwork to sort out.

There may or may not be queues. It's far too early to state that definitively. I'll put my money on there not being any, regardless of the outcome of the negotiations.

And if there are delays, then it will be on both sides of the borders. If there's a requirement for lorry parks in Dover then there'll be an equal requirement for them in Calais too.

[woohoo]

That sounds remarkably "have cake it and eat it"

UK has decided to leave the EU therefore all the bureaucratic "sh*t" that businesses have to deal with when importing/exporting will apply to EU imports and exports, and anyone who thinks that there will be some sort of special EU deal needs to go to the Swiss and Turkish border and look at the huge queues of lorries.

I used to drive past a queue of lorries several km long every time I drove in and out of Switzerland, and the queue was stationary, I rarely saw the queue actually move when I was driving past it.

I only mail ordered a couple of times to a German website from Switzerland before I completely gave up, simply because the even small deliveries got stuck for days in Swiss customs.

Have no doubt, the UK will be requiring huge lorry parks, and businesses will have huge delays and huge amounts of paperwork to sort out.

There is a huge difference between Switzerland and the UK.

[Paddy]

What has that list got to do with small businesses and VAT?

Quite right. BG @ 42 but it does have have flat rate tax and corp tax of 10%. Business rates are 90% less than the UK. There is a reason why HP moved to Sofia, and it's not just about salaries.

I have too many friends on the UK High Street struggling with business rates. eg. There is on small shop that has been in business for 30 years, his business rates are over £12,000... per month!