Reply to: The ship is sinking. The rats are leaving...

[Old Greg]

Well no and it will not while people think the EU is a benefit to their country when the reality is the EU exists so that the EU can continue to exist regardless of who wants it.

That is an alternative reality.

[NotAllThere]

These arguments are academic now. Article 50 has been delayed and the choice is Brino or more Brino. Theresa May read the riot act to the Brexiteers on Sunday. She is not stepping down, and there will not be a "real Brexit".

One can only congratulate the EU for a job well done. From an incredibly weak position they have managed against all odds to get what is essentially a brilliant deal for the EU.

Even if you are against the EU this achievement needs to be acknowledged.

It's such a shame. Britain held all the cards... folding with a royal flush to an eight high.

[BlasterBates]

These arguments are academic now. Article 50 has been delayed and the choice is Brino or more Brino. Theresa May read the riot act to the Brexiteers on Sunday. She is not stepping down, and there will not be a "real Brexit".

One can only congratulate the EU for a job well done. From an incredibly weak position they have managed against all odds to get what is essentially a brilliant deal for the EU.

Even if you are against the EU this achievement needs to be acknowledged.

[original PM]

Yes. The unity of the EU soon crumbled.

Well no and it will not while people think the EU is a benefit to their country when the reality is the EU exists so that the EU can continue to exist regardless of who wants it.

[Old Greg]

Jean-Claude Juncker 'doubts EU will remain united during Brexit talks', as he says he will not seek second term

Jean-Claude Juncker 'doubts EU will remain united during Brexit talks', as he says he will not seek second term

The reason I voted out is because I consider the EU is a failing project and we're better off in the lifeboats than staying on the ship as it turns turtle...

Yes. The unity of the EU soon crumbled.

[PurpleGorilla]

The ship is sinking. The rats are leaving...





http://www.cspp.strath.ac.uk/porto.ppt

[vetran]

Not so sure. People vote blue or red. The mainstream parties differ little. People will not vote for what the believe because defeat is known. So instead vote down the party you don't want has become the norm. In this type of democracy change is very much at the back of the queue. A good reason, in part, why major infrastructure projects never get off the ground, so to speak.

[/url]

Actually that is incorrect. Some people vote Blue or Red many however cross the divide for a great politician.

Britain a nation of swing voters as age of tribal politics comes to an end | The Independent

Almost one in four people switched their allegiance between the 2010 and 2015 elections – the highest proportion on record and three times as many as 50 years ago – according to fresh research from the British Election Study (BES).

[PurpleGorilla]

The ship is sinking. The rats are leaving...

So what if it isn't?

The EU is only 40 years old. Lets fix it. Lets not run away. By comparison the UK is 300 years old, what's our excuse? Back in the day before 1832 only landlords who reached a certain waste size were allowed to vote. And then it took an age and a half before woman had the same right. Are we inpatient, resentful, or perhaps hate it when others succeed where we have failed?

The founding six nations have the best deal in the EU and the rest have progressively worse deals.



If Germany and France et al give up their privileged extras and have totally the same deal as the rest then maybe, maybe there is hope for the EU project.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.cit...?client=safari

[vetran]

Exactly, the UK is a leading contributor. But that contribution will go up in smoke with Mayhem in charge. The integration of EU traffic control is an EU initiative with many members.

Used to work in Swanwick and West Drayton back in the day and again in 05/06 was it... then hoping over to the continent in pursuit of 'single European sky project'. The money that has already been poured into that endeavour... It is one project I recall that is dependent upon free movement more than others. I don't see how it can continue in a meaningful manner without FoM. It needs efficiency to work.

Pretty sure we collaborated with the rest of Europe a few times before the EU existed and people were firing at us & everything. Obviously things like the Gold Standard & workers moving across Europe before world war one are figments of the historian's imagination? Mrs May could be a poor prime minister but lets be serious Jezzy or Clegg would be 100 times worse. Remember in the Kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king!


So a Tier 1 migrant visa is unable to solve the issue working between MDCs with good education & criminal records yet we can get 100s of thousands of Indians with degrees off the back of a Cereal packet from a country renowned for corruption in public office in key positions throughout the UK? A visa waiver system like the USA for employees that travel less.

[vetran]

I thought long and hard whether the EU would/could change with the UK on the inside. After Cameron's failed renegotiation combined with weak handling of the migrant crisis and debt crisis - all of which had great opportunities for reform - I came to the conclusion that the EU is incapable of reforming.

Indeed this was one of the main things that encouraged me to vote leave.

[BrilloPad]

He's a presumptuous little bugger isn't he. His snout is deeper in the trough than most, such that even his fellow troughers (MEPs) probably wouldn't have wanted him back for a second term anyway.

(Cue the remoaner trolls...)

And in the process has consigned millions in Europe to poverty. I look forward to Nuremburg 2. I hope he swings.

[scooterscot]

There is plenty wrong with our government, and democracy in the UK. But it is OUR democracy and OUR government. They are accountable. The EU is not!

So what if it isn't?

The EU is only 40 years old. Lets fix it. Lets not run away. By comparison the UK is 300 years old, what's our excuse? Back in the day before 1832 only landlords who reached a certain waste size were allowed to vote. And then it took an age and a half before woman had the same right. Are we inpatient, resentful, or perhaps hate it when others succeed where we have failed?

[Mordac]

There is plenty wrong with our government, and democracy in the UK. But it is OUR democracy and OUR government. They are accountable. The EU is not!

WHS.

[PurpleGorilla]

Not so sure. People vote blue or red. The mainstream parties differ little. People will not vote for what the believe because defeat is known. So instead vote down the party you don't want has become the norm. In this type of democracy change is very much at the back of the queue. A good reason, in part, why major infrastructure projects never get off the ground, so to speak.

Since Scotland denounced labour a number of major infrastructure projects have got underway with the budget they're afforded.

In the time HS2 has been discussed a new Boarders railway has been built as well as a new bridge crossing the Firth of Forth. Scottish transport projects will cost £7.5bn over 30 years - BBC News

There is plenty wrong with our government, and democracy in the UK. But it is OUR democracy and OUR government. They are accountable. The EU is not!

[scooterscot]

Yes, but we can hold our ministers to account through a general election.
.

Not so sure. People vote blue or red. The mainstream parties differ little. People will not vote for what the believe because defeat is known. So instead vote down the party you don't want has become the norm. In this type of democracy change is very much at the back of the queue. A good reason, in part, why major infrastructure projects never get off the ground, so to speak.

Since Scotland denounced labour a number of major infrastructure projects have got underway with the budget they're afforded.

In the time HS2 has been discussed a new Boarders railway has been built as well as a new bridge crossing the Firth of Forth. Scottish transport projects will cost £7.5bn over 30 years - BBC News