Reply to: Hotel stay.. Not strictly necessary but still for the business, valid expense?

[Maslins]

I worked in my hotel room for four days when I was in the US week before last. I ask you this, if this is so obviously so cut and dried. I expensed both weekends I was at my hotel in the US. I worked 1 out of those 4 days. I'd rather have gone home but logistics make it impossible. Plenty of people work in hotels. If it's just a bed, what is there to say you should choose the cheapest location or the Ritz. Non-sensical.

That's paying for a hotel in the US because it didn't make sense to commute back on a daily basis. I don't see that's remotely the same as the OP's situation.

Also, I wasn't saying it was cut and dried, just giving my opinion.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

IMHO HMR&C would view this as not being 'necessary' and therefore would not allow it. If you are away from home because your client site location necessitates you staying in a hotel or B&C that is one thing but to chose to change your location as it has a preferred ambiance is a choice and not a necessity. I think that, in order to be able to justify the cost as an expense, you would have to prove that the change of location had a significant impact on your ability to complete the project and I cannot think what proof you could offer. I would also suggest that the improvement in peace of mind would also be considered as duality of purpose.

[MarillionFan]

My 2c (as a qualified accountant, but don't think that makes my views here more valid than contractors) is that I don't think you should put it through.

As has been suggested above, there are lots of places you can rent an office for the day/week/whatever...or you could go to a Starbucks/similar and use their wifi if you just want a change of scenery.

Ask the man on the street what a hotel is for, the majority would likely say to sleep when you're away from home, or words to that effect. If you were just using a conference room/similar in the hotel during the day, IMO that would be fine...why do you need to sleep there (where the bulk of the cost is incurred)?

As NLUK suggests, where do you draw the line. Would your creative juices be even better if the view from the hotel window was of palm trees and sandy beaches? Possibly...in which case why not go for the Maldives.

I worked in my hotel room for four days when I was in the US week before last. I ask you this, if this is so obviously so cut and dried. I expensed both weekends I was at my hotel in the US. I worked 1 out of those 4 days. I'd rather have gone home but logistics make it impossible. Plenty of people work in hotels. If it's just a bed, what is there to say you should choose the cheapest location or the Ritz. Non-sensical.

[BA to the Stars]

Bizarrre nonsense, except you're right about HMRC opinion being the one that matters.

So instead of asking people on an internet forum, have you considered asking HMRC. Do don't have to say "This is Shoes Ltd can I claim for this hotel stay", just ask anonymously & / or as if it is something being considered as opposed to already done.

[Maslins]

My 2c (as a qualified accountant, but don't think that makes my views here more valid than contractors) is that I don't think you should put it through.

As has been suggested above, there are lots of places you can rent an office for the day/week/whatever...or you could go to a Starbucks/similar and use their wifi if you just want a change of scenery.

Ask the man on the street what a hotel is for, the majority would likely say to sleep when you're away from home, or words to that effect. If you were just using a conference room/similar in the hotel during the day, IMO that would be fine...why do you need to sleep there (where the bulk of the cost is incurred)?

As NLUK suggests, where do you draw the line. Would your creative juices be even better if the view from the hotel window was of palm trees and sandy beaches? Possibly...in which case why not go for the Maldives.

[shoes]

But the key point which you have the wrong way round is in bold. He went away and while he was he did some work. He went for personal reasons and did work there. He didn't go to because work dictated it.

I went away in order to do the work. MF has made/repeated the points for me. Im interested in the opinions of the congregation, but reasoned ones are best! And those from qualified sources, such as accountants. Also those that are the same as mine, of course

And again, bottom line, whatever we think... you really think HMRC will allow this. They let one person pull this off their world will turn to tulip. It will make MP's look like tax angels if they let this one go.

Bizarrre nonsense, except you're right about HMRC opinion being the one that matters.

It's a little fuzzy which was why I asked, but I've yet to hear a rational argument as to why what I actually did cannot be put through the books, and a few that are rational suggesting it is fine.

Thanks!

[SueEllen]

I used to go in the car, turn the music speakers up super loud and listen to heavy metal while working on technical concepts or presentations. Can I claim for CDs and a super woofer?

Didn't realise your role for that client involved listening to loud music.

[MarillionFan]

Shoes was working on his company's products so I presume he was working on the company's own software rather than on client software.

Doesn't matter but I would come up with a better story than having to go somewhere for creative inspiration.

I used to go in the car, turn the music speakers up super loud and listen to heavy metal while working on technical concepts or presentations. Can I claim for CDs and a super woofer?

[SueEllen]

WHS.

Anyway, who the fook knows if's legit or not. Only the OP. As long as he invoiced for part of that week, he could have stayed in the Maldives on an outward bound course. If he didn't invoice though...

( I find lying is the best way in dealing with Government organizations. Admit nothing )

Shoes was working on his company's products so I presume he was working on the company's own software rather than on client software.

Doesn't matter but I would come up with a better story than having to go somewhere for creative inspiration.

[MarillionFan]

Its not ridiculous. They used to do it to Douglas Adams all the time as it was the only way you ever got any work out of him.

I would imagine if you have a deadline and you can't work from home it may be justifiable especially if you can show its significantly different from a holiday (i.e. without partner and children).

WHS.

Anyway, who the fook knows if's legit or not. Only the OP. As long as he invoiced for part of that week, he could have stayed in the Maldives on an outward bound course. If he didn't invoice though...

( I find lying is the best way in dealing with Government organizations. Admit nothing )

[SueEllen]

Its not ridiculous. They used to do it to Douglas Adams all the time as it was the only way you ever got any work out of him.

I would imagine if you have a deadline and you can't work from home it may be justifiable especially if you can show its significantly different from a holiday (i.e. without partner and children).

Shoes didn't say anything of the sort which is why it looks suspicious.

[eek]

Hotel to relax so you can work better? Ridiculous.

Its not ridiculous. They used to do it to Douglas Adams all the time as it was the only way you ever got any work out of him.

I would imagine if you have a deadline and you can't work from home it may be justifiable especially if you can show its significantly different from a holiday (i.e. without partner and children).

[northernladuk]

I so disagree with you. So the OP decides to work away for the week and stay in a hotel. Whatever the reasoning, he has decided to work somewhere more expensive. What's to say you go off and hire a Regus office for the week to post on CUK as opposed to spending all day berating posters from your desk. You can still claim it. If he pops away for the weekend, absolutely no. But going and working in a hotel damn right it's expensable.

The owners of present clientco ($200m turnover) did exactly that. They holed themselves & a team up in a spa hotel for 2 months when they set up their business. Do you think they didn't expense it because it was nicer than renting an office?

But the key point which you have the wrong way round is in bold. He went away and while he was he did some work. He went for personal reasons and did work there. He didn't go to because work dictated it. Personal well being so you can do work is not wholly and exclusively. To go to work because work dictates it it is fine.

You doing something to get in the right mind for work is sorting your personal life out so you are ready. It has sod all to do with your business.

I mean seriously.. If this was claimable the whole expenses system would be in a ******* mess with everyone claiming all kinds of crap for 'personal well being so I work better' rule.

And again, bottom line, whatever we think... you really think HMRC will allow this. They let one person pull this off their world will turn to tulip. It will make MP's look like tax angels if they let this one go.

[MarillionFan]

it isn't entirely for business. It is for him to relax. That is personal. The fact he is relaxed in a better place and can do business is nothing to do with the business.



Totally this. The fact the same message is being repeated but the OP continues to argue proves this. Why ask if you don't like the answer, just fiddle your books and have done.



This covers it as well.

These questions are just stupid. The OP admits it in his title so he knows the answer. People have to apply a bit of common sense here and not just try fiddle words in legislation. Try look at it from the HMRC's point of view as they are the people that would come after you. A load of people start putting in expenses to relax so they can work better? You really think that would wash? It isn't us you are trying to convince and really it isn't you either. At the end of the day it is HMRC so try thinking about what they would make of it.

Hotel to relax so you can work better? Ridiculous.

I so disagree with you. So the OP decides to work away for the week and stay in a hotel. Whatever the reasoning, he has decided to work somewhere more expensive. What's to say you go off and hire a Regus office for the week to post on CUK as opposed to spending all day berating posters from your desk. You can still claim it. If he pops away for the weekend, absolutely no. But going and working in a hotel damn right it's expensable.

The owners of present clientco ($200m turnover) did exactly that. They holed themselves & a team up in a spa hotel for 2 months when they set up their business. Do you think they didn't expense it because it was nicer than renting an office?

[northernladuk]

I like the idea of all tax inspectors having enormous warts at the end of their noses and purple prickles all over their backs.

To get back on topic, I also don't really see an issue. If the hotel trip was entirely for business and your business benefited then why shouldn't you claim. If you took your significant other or an alternative not-so-significant other then that would probably raise issues.

it isn't entirely for business. It is for him to relax. That is personal. The fact he is relaxed in a better place and can do business is nothing to do with the business.

Yet another poster who asks a question, doesn't get the answer they want to hear, and then gets a bit moody with those giving advice.

Totally this. The fact the same message is being repeated but the OP continues to argue proves this. Why ask if you don't like the answer, just fiddle your books and have done.

It's really not difficult...

This covers it as well.

These questions are just stupid. The OP admits it in his title so he knows the answer. People have to apply a bit of common sense here and not just try fiddle words in legislation. Try look at it from the HMRC's point of view as they are the people that would come after you. A load of people start putting in expenses to relax so they can work better? You really think that would wash? It isn't us you are trying to convince and really it isn't you either. At the end of the day it is HMRC so try thinking about what they would make of it.

Hotel to relax so you can work better? Ridiculous.