Reply to: Recovering unpaid debt

[Safe Collections]

Take care Safe Collections - you're moving to the wrong side of our T&Cs.

We didn't mention selling anything

Only offering to help (for free) but will stop offering if it's frowned on

[cojak]

Take care Safe Collections - you're moving to the wrong side of our T&Cs.

[Safe Collections]

Why not add on some interest and increase the amount owed to £5000?

You cant just add interest at will

The judgement will continue to accrue interest but it will be a very, very long time before it gets to the £5K mark!

If the debtor company has assets it will be theoretically possible to turn the judgment into cold hard cash. But if it's a one man band operating out of serviced offices it's unlikely the company will have enough physical assets for a bailiff or HCEO to levy on.

As for playing the trading whilst insolvent card, forget it. The law is useless in that respect and all any dodgy director needs to say is "I thought I could trade out of the difficulties" and that will be that. Getting the insolvency service to investigate over a £3k judgment will also be nigh on impossible

EDIT:

OP if you want an idea on your chances of success, get a credit report from a decent provider (Ie Riskdisk, experian, equifax) and look at the suggested credit limit and any listed assets.

If the credit limit is good and the debtor company is showing assets you probably have a chance. If the company has a low or zero credit rating and is showing no assets on the balance sheet then the chances of getting paid are much less.

[doomage]

Have sort-of decided to go down the debt sale route, but now I don't seem to be able to find any companies online who'll buy individual debts of this value. Tried Debt Buying | Debt Collection | Asset Tracing | Bluestone Arm but they won't consider anything under £5k. Any suggestions??

Why not add on some interest and increase the amount owed to £5000?

[Platypus]

Your suggestion has crossed my mind, but .. is .. highly illegal and probably likely to get me in more trouble than him

Exactly. Don't do it.

he has my home address too .. and I've no doubt that he's capable of (and probably willing to) doing far worse to me than I would to him.

Exactly. Don't do it.

And indeed he still might use this approach himself, whatever course of action you choose.

[Willapp]

I've been in situations like this before, on both sides of the fence. When you agreed to do the work, was it a verbal agreement? Can they just come back and say they didn't authorise you to do it? The CCJ you issued will be against the company I'm guessing not the individual, so hes probably not arsed about that too much. He could potentially rack up dozens of CCJ's against the company with £000's of debts and change names from next Monday morning. A liquidator costs as little as a few thousand, and you would (probably) only realise they are liquidated after the event - they are meant to send out letters to each of the creditors if they tell them who they are.

Personally, I'd arrange for some people to go around to his personal address (don't do it yourself) and take something of his, a car perhaps, or cause a lot of damage to his property with a threat of going back if the debts not paid..... or alternatively just forget about it and put it down to one of those things.

Just my opinion...

No it was a written agreement with his signature on it, so we're water-tight on that front. The problem is like you say he's clearly not bothered about having a CCJ against his business even though I thought it was supposed to affect credit ratings etc. but I guess he doesn't care.

Your suggestion has crossed my mind, but the problem is (aside from being highly illegal and probably likely to get me in more trouble than him) he has my home address too as it's on all the court paperwork and I've no doubt that he's capable of (and probably willing to) doing far worse to me than I would to him.

Have sort-of decided to go down the debt sale route, but now I don't seem to be able to find any companies online who'll buy individual debts of this value. Tried Debt Buying | Debt Collection | Asset Tracing | Bluestone Arm but they won't consider anything under £5k. Any suggestions??

[ChrisPackit]

I've been in situations like this before, on both sides of the fence. When you agreed to do the work, was it a verbal agreement? Can they just come back and say they didn't authorise you to do it? The CCJ you issued will be against the company I'm guessing not the individual, so hes probably not arsed about that too much. He could potentially rack up dozens of CCJ's against the company with £000's of debts and change names from next Monday morning. A liquidator costs as little as a few thousand, and you would (probably) only realise they are liquidated after the event - they are meant to send out letters to each of the creditors if they tell them who they are.

Personally, I'd arrange for some people to go around to his personal address (don't do it yourself) and take something of his, a car perhaps, or cause a lot of damage to his property with a threat of going back if the debts not paid..... or alternatively just forget about it and put it down to one of those things.

Just my opinion...

[High Court Enforcement]

If you do decide to use a High Court Enforcement Officer (formerly a Sheriffs Officer) to enforce a judgment over £600 it is worth remembering a few things.

It only costs £60 to issue a Writ of Fi Fa using form N293A. If the HCEO is unsuccessful you will be liable to a £60 (plus VAT) abortive fee.

The HCEO will add their fees to the debt. If you're owed £1000 for example, by the time the HCEO turns up he'll probably be looking for circa £1600. This will increase with additional visits if needed.

The HCEO can seize and sell, if necessary, the goods of the debtor. Computers are often worthless at auction but highly valuable to the debtor due to the information on them.

If the debtor is trading from a commercial premises the HCEO can force entry to seize goods.

All in all the use of an HCEO is not a miracle cure but if the debtor has assets it can often be the easiest and most cost effective method of recovery.

There is a wealth of information available online if you Google 'High Court Enforcement'.

Good luck.

The Sheriffs Office

[DaveB]

On the bright side, at least according to HMRC and their latest set of tests, you are well outside IR35 now

[Willapp]

The CAB do have quite a good reputation for helping people in this area.

Hadn't actually thought about asking CAB so will definitely give them a call, thanks.

I know what you mean regarding assets and I suspect that things like vehicles are either leased or owned privately, but I believe there is a reasonable amount of IT equipment on site which I've reason to believe is owned by the business, plus furniture etc. so there might be enough to get something from it.

Still can't decide what to do but it's been very useful getting external input so thanks for all the replies.

[ASB]

I just checked here How to serve the petition - Business Link and it looks like the fee is actually £1,385 although apparently £1,165 of it is refunded if the petition is withdrawn (presumably if they pay up).

Unfortunately that's just way too much cash to risk so I think it will be easier to just sell the debt or go down the HCEO route.

When I did this my eventual bill included the solicitors time and the application fee. I can't recall the level of the petition fee but since it got resolved before court it became academic.

It might still be worth considering on the following basis. Put in the petition. The advertising of the petition should cause their bank to freeze their accounts (no guarantee of this but the bank is vulnerable if they shift cash assets etc). This is still going to cost you a couple of hundred, plus the large petition fee.

At this point he will know you are serious. It may just be that this is enough to find resolution. I believe that if YOU then chose to withdraw shortly before hearing the deposit is still refunded, so your actual financial exposure can be managed to be a considerably lower sum. The chancery division at the high court will explain the options.

If you do go for an HCEO this does have the advantage of being cheap. But the costs involved and charged to the debtor are considerable, so there has to be enough asset available to cover these as well as the debt. Of course the fees get paid before you see anything.

It's all well and good the bailiff turning up and levying the vehicles and equipment etc, but all the debtor has to do is prove that they do not belong to the business. e.g. vehicles are leased, equipment is leased etc. It might be useful spending the few quid to get the latest accounts and see if there are any declared assets, if not it will be tricky to get anything by any route.

The CAB do have quite a good reputation for helping people in this area.

[doomage]

Well the only silver lining on the otherwise black cloud is that we never handed over the site due to his refusal to pay, so although we completed all the work he's never had the benefit of using it which is some (very small) consolation. Otherwise I think it would've been balaclava's at the ready...

Can you just change some of the logos and sell the site to someone else?

[BlasterBates]

I would go for the court debt enforcement officer. If has the money they´ll get some money out of him.

[Willapp]

I hope you have taken the site down ?

Well the only silver lining on the otherwise black cloud is that we never handed over the site due to his refusal to pay, so although we completed all the work he's never had the benefit of using it which is some (very small) consolation. Otherwise I think it would've been balaclava's at the ready...

[doomage]

I hope you have taken the site down ?

Even better, replace the content so it appropriately names and shames, with copies of the legal judgements etc. Also see if you can find other people he owes money to and get them to help chase / wind up his business.

Also notify his customers, hit his business where it hurts etc