Reply to: Claiming equipment/sundries purchased for pied-à-terre in London

[BoredBloke]

I'm renting a flat at the moment in london. The cost of the rent and the bills for the energy it consumes, the council tax and the phone/broadband, that sort of stuff is paid for out of the company funds. The rest is down to me as I'm not a MP. If I want things in it that make my life nicer then I have to pay for that myself. The way I look at it, I could stay in a hotel 4 nights of the week, but this is a cheaper option from the company point of view. I live a little further away than surrey though. The north west is not something I'd like to consider as a daily commute.

I'm only here during the week. If you let them know you are there at weekends then I belive it fails on the wholly and exclusively part! So I go home at the weekends!!

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Neo, I think you need to fully understand the concepts of duality of purpose and wholly and exclusively. This should give you all the information that you require BIM37900 - Wholly & exclusively: expenditure having an intrinsic duality of purpose. Have a look through and then if you have any more questions we'll be happy to answer them

[Guest22]

Whatever dude. My post was facetious as you're clearly having a laugh. There was a piece on the news recently highlighting how difficult it is for disabled people to get around in London. Perhaps you should just stay home.

'dude'? lol - I saw a guy walking around Mile End last week with leather trousers and a leather jacket on, sporting aviator shades. He looked about 60 years old. Was that you??

SueEllen, I'm gathering from your last two posts that what you're saying is, it is better to rent a fully-furnished flat because the furnishings/equipment will be worked into the rent which is a tax-deductible expense, but if I have to furnish/equip an unfurnished or partially furnished flat, then the extra expenses will not be tax-deductible?

[SueEllen]

What's potatoes got to do with it?

Google is your friend.

[d000hg]

pied-à-terre

What's potatoes got to do with it?

[SueEllen]

But if myco had a member of staff seconded 2 hours away from where they lived and myco arranged and paid for and rented accomodation for the duration, and also provided all furnishings and whatnot - which is what happened when I was a permie on secondment - what's the tax position then?

HMRC has advice on their website about whether this is a BIK.

The guidance booklet is here and you can find more information if you search for it.

In regards to furnishing the flat and paying for that separately you can rent fully furnished flats that come with bedding and have a laundry service included in the price of the rent which if you were sending an employee on secondment you would try and get, rather than rent somewhere unfurnished/part furnished.

After all when the employee left the accommodation (which normally happens after 3 months) you will be stuck with the furnishings which are worth nothing second-hand.

[BigTime]

BigTime, you clearly have no clue. You cannot claim socks or anything clothing for that matter unless it's a uniform. This has been tried and tested.

And what's your point about Surrey being commutable? France is commutable if you own a helicopter. What do you class as 'commutable'? Is it anywhere within a certain amount of miles? What if you're in a wheelchair like I am? And does the notion of living somewhere more commutable make any sense to you? And you make no sense - if you're arguing Surrey is commutable, why then mention I could stay in a hotel if I need to stay overnight? I have to stay overnight every night - a hotel is much more costly than a rented flat and I can claim either. Lastly, what does it matter if I am living in rented accommodation and putting it through the business? This is hardly tax avoidance when it is costing me considerably more to have a second place regardless of claimable expenses. And 'get real'? Are you from the 90s, or a middle-aged person trying to be hip and cool?




Thanks northernladuk, glad to have a non-facetious and sensible answer This makes much more sense. Yes, I was thinking more along the lines of 'I need it cause I am here for work'. But, it makes more sense to think 'do I need this to do my business or to live?'. Re the kitchen equipment and cleaning materials, yes I need them because I'm here to work, but they are to live, not for business (unless I ran a business selling toasted sandwiches! )

Sockpuppet - what other thread are you referring to? I don't recall ever being told about 'taking the piss', and this is the first thread I am asking this question. Perhaps it is a case of mistaken identity?...



It is, isn't it? And what's this code you speak? WLMFAOROTFLWTFPMSL!!!

Whatever dude. My post was facetious as you're clearly having a laugh. There was a piece on the news recently highlighting how difficult it is for disabled people to get around in London. Perhaps you should just stay home.

[oscarose]

You can claim them but you will be taxed on them as a BIK.

And I'm not having an argument with you.

The reason you will be taxed on them is simply that HMRC wouldn't see them as related to doing your job in any shape or form.

HMRC allow some leeway on expenses that aren't completely related to your business equipment and business services but they don't expect you to furnish a full property*, and would come down heavy on you if you did and they went through your accounts.

If you had to have an emergency overnight stay in a hotel and had to buy pyjamas, toothbrush etc then that wouldn't be a BIK.

I don't know where you live in Surrey but would the others are impolitely point out to you is that you could be wasting money renting. Obviously there could be medical/disability reasons why you can't do such a long commute.

*unless you business involves directly furnishing such properties.

WSS+1

[SueEllen]

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In any case, I've read that thread and it is about something completely different - it is referring to claiming rent on expenses while having an owned flat. Whereas this thread is about claiming expenses on kitchen equipment and cleaning materials.

You can claim them but you will be taxed on them as a BIK.

And I'm not having an argument with you.

The reason you will be taxed on them is simply that HMRC wouldn't see them as related to doing your job in any shape or form.

HMRC allow some leeway on expenses that aren't completely related to your business equipment and business services but they don't expect you to furnish a full property*, and would come down heavy on you if you did and they went through your accounts.

If you had to have an emergency overnight stay in a hotel and had to buy pyjamas, toothbrush etc then that wouldn't be a BIK.

I don't know where you live in Surrey but would the others are impolitely point out to you is that you could be wasting money renting. Obviously there could be medical/disability reasons why you can't do such a long commute.

*unless you business involves directly furnishing such properties.

[NotAllThere]

Stop the now, please.

[Guest22]

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In any case, I've read that thread and it is about something completely different - it is referring to claiming rent on expenses while having an owned flat. Whereas this thread is about claiming expenses on kitchen equipment and cleaning materials.

As for claiming rent which both you and Clare have commented on (even though it belongs in the other thread), I don't agree with you. If I choose to rent in London instead of commuting several hours a day, that is my choice as a contractor and an expense I have incurred wholly for the business regardless of whether anyone, including a tax inspector, has an opinion on how feasible three hours of commuting each day is. What are they going to say? "You rented this flat in London, which we accept is purely for contracting in London, but you are going to have to pay tax on it anyway." Rubbish!

I have much better things to do with my life than spend 756 hours a year on the train, which equates to over one entire calendar month sat continuously on a train!!!

[NotAllThere]

It often helps to try to separate yourself from the business, take a step back, and think about what would happen if you had employees in the same position who asked you whether they could claim it. Ignore the fact that it's "your" money paying "your" expenses - it's not, the two are totally different and the company is a separate legal entity.

If a member of your staff were seconded to a client site 2 hours away from where they lived and put in a claim for rent, household items and full subsistence, would you pay it? Would you be happy that they are all business costs (not costs incurred because of personal choice). If so - go for it.

Personally, I'd say "Here's £250 a week, get the train and then go home for dinner" but then I'm mean like that

But if myco had a member of staff seconded 2 hours away from where they lived and myco arranged and paid for and rented accomodation for the duration, and also provided all furnishings and whatnot - which is what happened when I was a permie on secondment - what's the tax position then?

I.e. looking it from the aspect of not an employee claiming expenses, but rather the business buying things. Also, is there a difference between me claiming expenses from my company and me buying something for my company, perhaps thereby incurring an entry in the director's loan account, and the company reimbursing me?

[Clare@InTouch]

It often helps to try to separate yourself from the business, take a step back, and think about what would happen if you had employees in the same position who asked you whether they could claim it. Ignore the fact that it's "your" money paying "your" expenses - it's not, the two are totally different and the company is a separate legal entity.

If a member of your staff were seconded to a client site 2 hours away from where they lived and put in a claim for rent, household items and full subsistence, would you pay it? Would you be happy that they are all business costs (not costs incurred because of personal choice). If so - go for it.

Personally, I'd say "Here's £250 a week, get the train and then go home for dinner" but then I'm mean like that

[Sockpuppet]

So two threads where you've basically been told you can't do what you want. This one and http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ty-london.html but you insist on arguing with us.

Your accountant has advised against it and so have we but at the end of the day go claim for what ever you like You pays your money you take a chance. You'll either save some tax and never get investigated or save some tax, get investigated and maybe have to pay it back.

This is hardly tax avoidance when it is costing me considerably more to have a second place regardless of claimable expenses.

That doesn't matter. HMRC are only interested in their tax take. If that goes down regardless of if you actually made any more out of it they're still interested.

[Guest22]

BigTime, you clearly have no clue. You cannot claim socks or anything clothing for that matter unless it's a uniform. This has been tried and tested.

And what's your point about Surrey being commutable? France is commutable if you own a helicopter. What do you class as 'commutable'? Is it anywhere within a certain amount of miles? What if you're in a wheelchair like I am? And does the notion of living somewhere more commutable make any sense to you? And you make no sense - if you're arguing Surrey is commutable, why then mention I could stay in a hotel if I need to stay overnight? I have to stay overnight every night - a hotel is much more costly than a rented flat and I can claim either. Lastly, what does it matter if I am living in rented accommodation and putting it through the business? This is hardly tax avoidance when it is costing me considerably more to have a second place regardless of claimable expenses. And 'get real'? Are you from the 90s, or a middle-aged person trying to be hip and cool?

The simple rule of thumb here is 'Wholly and Exclusively for business' If you can be objective (which most can't) that should give you a starting point for all these. Think beyond 'I need it cause I am here for work'. Think do I need this to do my business or to live. Does it have duality of purpose.

Thanks northernladuk, glad to have a non-facetious and sensible answer This makes much more sense. Yes, I was thinking more along the lines of 'I need it cause I am here for work'. But, it makes more sense to think 'do I need this to do my business or to live?'. Re the kitchen equipment and cleaning materials, yes I need them because I'm here to work, but they are to live, not for business (unless I ran a business selling toasted sandwiches! )

Sockpuppet - what other thread are you referring to? I don't recall ever being told about 'taking the piss', and this is the first thread I am asking this question. Perhaps it is a case of mistaken identity?...

WNLUKS

WSPS

Why do some people think having a limited co is a blank cheque to buy all sorts of household bits and pieces!?

It is, isn't it? And what's this code you speak? WLMFAOROTFLWTFPMSL!!!