Claiming equipment/sundries purchased for pied-à-terre in London

[Guest22]

Would like people's take on certain expenses if I'm staying in a flat in London that I have rented purely as a pied-à-terre for the purpose of my contract. I otherwise live outside of London in Surrey.

I claim all subsistence and travel and also the rent on the flat through the business, but what about things I have had to purchase for the flat. This includes a microwave, toaster, duvet, bed sheets, pillows, cleaning materials, pots and pans, etc.

They are things I would otherwise not have had to purchase if I were not contracting in London. My accountant has said that as those expenses are not wholly and exclusively for business purposes, HMRC may not allow them as a deduction. And, even though I would not incur the expenses if I were not renting, HMRC could argue that I could bring some of these items with me from home for personal use.

[BigTime]

Would like people's take on certain expenses if I'm staying in a flat in London that I have rented purely as a pied-à-terre for the purpose of my contract. I otherwise live outside of London in Surrey.

I claim all subsistence and travel and also the rent on the flat through the business, but what about things I have had to purchase for the flat. This includes a microwave, toaster, duvet, bed sheets, pillows, cleaning materials, pots and pans, etc.

They are things I would otherwise not have had to purchase if I were not contracting in London. My accountant has said that as those expenses are not wholly and exclusively for business purposes, HMRC may not allow them as a deduction. And, even though I would not incur the expenses if I were not renting, HMRC could argue that I could bring some of these items with me from home for personal use.

Get real, what about the black socks you need for the office instead of the usual white? Surrey is commutable and if you need an overnight stay, how about a hotel. Nevertheless your accounts are unaudited so go for it.

[northernladuk]

Would like people's take on certain expenses if I'm staying in a flat in London that I have rented purely as a pied-à-terre for the purpose of my contract. I otherwise live outside of London in Surrey.

I claim all subsistence and travel and also the rent on the flat through the business, but what about things I have had to purchase for the flat. This includes a microwave, toaster, duvet, bed sheets, pillows, cleaning materials, pots and pans, etc.

They are things I would otherwise not have had to purchase if I were not contracting in London. My accountant has said that as those expenses are not wholly and exclusively for business purposes, HMRC may not allow them as a deduction. And, even though I would not incur the expenses if I were not renting, HMRC could argue that I could bring some of these items with me from home for personal use.

They are not wholly and exclusively for the contract. They are for you to live. You could bring your own and you can also use them after the contract.

You would clean stuff if you were at home so that also doesn't count.

The simple rule of thumb here is 'Wholly and Exclusively for business' If you can be objective (which most can't) that should give you a starting point for all these. Think beyond 'I need it cause I am here for work'. Think do I need this to do my business or to live. Does it have duality of purpose.

I would sack your accountant if you don't feel you can trust him by the way..... Plenty of good accountants on here will know everything and you can trust.

[Sockpuppet]

Would like people's take on certain expenses if I'm staying in a flat in London that I have rented purely as a pied-à-terre for the purpose of my contract. I otherwise live outside of London in Surrey.

I claim all subsistence and travel and also the rent on the flat through the business, but what about things I have had to purchase for the flat. This includes a microwave, toaster, duvet, bed sheets, pillows, cleaning materials, pots and pans, etc.

They are things I would otherwise not have had to purchase if I were not contracting in London. My accountant has said that as those expenses are not wholly and exclusively for business purposes, HMRC may not allow them as a deduction. And, even though I would not incur the expenses if I were not renting, HMRC could argue that I could bring some of these items with me from home for personal use.

You've already asked a question about this flat in London when you were told you were taking the piss then so why start another and ask pretty much the same?

[BolshieBastard]

They are not wholly and exclusively for the contract. They are for you to live. You could bring your own and you can also use them after the contract.

You would clean stuff if you were at home so that also doesn't count.

The simple rule of thumb here is 'Wholly and Exclusively for business' If you can be objective (which most can't) that should give you a starting point for all these. Think beyond 'I need it cause I am here for work'. Think do I need this to do my business or to live. Does it have duality of purpose.

I would sack your accountant if you don't feel you can trust him by the way..... Plenty of good accountants on here will know everything and you can trust.

WNLUKS

You've already asked a question about this flat in London when you were told you were taking the piss then so why start another and ask pretty much the same?

WSPS

Why do some people think having a limited co is a blank cheque to buy all sorts of household bits and pieces!?

[oscarose]

Neo,

The clue is in the word - business expense.

Good luck with your pied-a-terre.

O Rose.

[Guest22]

BigTime, you clearly have no clue. You cannot claim socks or anything clothing for that matter unless it's a uniform. This has been tried and tested.

And what's your point about Surrey being commutable? France is commutable if you own a helicopter. What do you class as 'commutable'? Is it anywhere within a certain amount of miles? What if you're in a wheelchair like I am? And does the notion of living somewhere more commutable make any sense to you? And you make no sense - if you're arguing Surrey is commutable, why then mention I could stay in a hotel if I need to stay overnight? I have to stay overnight every night - a hotel is much more costly than a rented flat and I can claim either. Lastly, what does it matter if I am living in rented accommodation and putting it through the business? This is hardly tax avoidance when it is costing me considerably more to have a second place regardless of claimable expenses. And 'get real'? Are you from the 90s, or a middle-aged person trying to be hip and cool?

The simple rule of thumb here is 'Wholly and Exclusively for business' If you can be objective (which most can't) that should give you a starting point for all these. Think beyond 'I need it cause I am here for work'. Think do I need this to do my business or to live. Does it have duality of purpose.

Thanks northernladuk, glad to have a non-facetious and sensible answer This makes much more sense. Yes, I was thinking more along the lines of 'I need it cause I am here for work'. But, it makes more sense to think 'do I need this to do my business or to live?'. Re the kitchen equipment and cleaning materials, yes I need them because I'm here to work, but they are to live, not for business (unless I ran a business selling toasted sandwiches! )

Sockpuppet - what other thread are you referring to? I don't recall ever being told about 'taking the piss', and this is the first thread I am asking this question. Perhaps it is a case of mistaken identity?...

WNLUKS

WSPS

Why do some people think having a limited co is a blank cheque to buy all sorts of household bits and pieces!?

It is, isn't it? And what's this code you speak? WLMFAOROTFLWTFPMSL!!!

[Sockpuppet]

So two threads where you've basically been told you can't do what you want. This one and http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ty-london.html but you insist on arguing with us.

Your accountant has advised against it and so have we but at the end of the day go claim for what ever you like You pays your money you take a chance. You'll either save some tax and never get investigated or save some tax, get investigated and maybe have to pay it back.

This is hardly tax avoidance when it is costing me considerably more to have a second place regardless of claimable expenses.

That doesn't matter. HMRC are only interested in their tax take. If that goes down regardless of if you actually made any more out of it they're still interested.

[Clare@InTouch]

It often helps to try to separate yourself from the business, take a step back, and think about what would happen if you had employees in the same position who asked you whether they could claim it. Ignore the fact that it's "your" money paying "your" expenses - it's not, the two are totally different and the company is a separate legal entity.

If a member of your staff were seconded to a client site 2 hours away from where they lived and put in a claim for rent, household items and full subsistence, would you pay it? Would you be happy that they are all business costs (not costs incurred because of personal choice). If so - go for it.

Personally, I'd say "Here's £250 a week, get the train and then go home for dinner" but then I'm mean like that

[NotAllThere]

It often helps to try to separate yourself from the business, take a step back, and think about what would happen if you had employees in the same position who asked you whether they could claim it. Ignore the fact that it's "your" money paying "your" expenses - it's not, the two are totally different and the company is a separate legal entity.

If a member of your staff were seconded to a client site 2 hours away from where they lived and put in a claim for rent, household items and full subsistence, would you pay it? Would you be happy that they are all business costs (not costs incurred because of personal choice). If so - go for it.

Personally, I'd say "Here's £250 a week, get the train and then go home for dinner" but then I'm mean like that

But if myco had a member of staff seconded 2 hours away from where they lived and myco arranged and paid for and rented accomodation for the duration, and also provided all furnishings and whatnot - which is what happened when I was a permie on secondment - what's the tax position then?

I.e. looking it from the aspect of not an employee claiming expenses, but rather the business buying things. Also, is there a difference between me claiming expenses from my company and me buying something for my company, perhaps thereby incurring an entry in the director's loan account, and the company reimbursing me?