Reply to: Buying a motocycle/scooter through the company

[b r]

I've done this.

Triumph 1050, ran it 20k in a year and then sold as the contract I bought it for came to an end.

Put through all costs as I only used it for business, worked out at 36ppm all in.

Also saved £10 a day parking and gained 1 hours worth of billable time :-)

No brainer.

[Lost It]

You missed out have a very loud can

I have two of them. Staintunes with the bungs out... It's VFR Vtec I use, the offbeat exhaust note is very loud... I measured it at 117db at a meter at 8,000 rpm using my RACMSA sound meter. They won't let me use it on race tracks..

My personal tyre of choice is Dunlop RoadSmart. I bottle it way before they do.

[Yorkie62]

...ONLY way to ride a bike is to presume that no-one else has seen you, they don't know you are there, you are invisible no matter what clothing you wear, how many lights you burn. That way you will not be surprised when cage drivers stop dead, turn right or left or do U turns without indicating, pull out from blind junctions, overtake cars and appear in front of you, try to force youoff the road etc.

".

You missed out have a very loud can

[Yorkie62]

Yep, CBT is pretty basic. Maybe an afternoon in a car park or something. They just want to make sure you can start off, balance, do a figure of 8/u-turn without putting your feet down and apply at least 50% of the possible braking power in an emergency stop. If you can do all that without falling off then you are good to go.

You really need to do one of the longer courses with a view to passing your bike test. I know it's not a legal requirement but realistically you are riding a bike so you must learn the skills otherwise you will become another bloody statistic showing how dangerous these machines are. I suggest a 3 or 5 day one. They will also take you out on the road, probably in a group of 3 with a radio so they can talk to you as you ride. It's good fun and you will learn skills which will save you a lot of grief.

They will do a load of road theory, examples of stuff that car drivers aren't generally aware of are:

• Road surfaces and contamination, ruts, white lines, etc - have you ever noticed an oil/diesel spill on the road? Bikers notice them all the time because if they don't then they crash when they hit this stuff.
• Road positioning - you don't think about it much in a car because you are one lane wide but on a bike a single lane looks like 3 or 4 lanes and it's really important to be in the correct place on the road depending on what you are going to do next.
• Spacial awareness - as with road positioning there is a lot to take in and it's really important to understand what's happing around you.
• Co-existing with with other vehicles - sometimes they are hostile to you and you have to be able to make the right choices to keep out of harm's way.

And please, don't try and go around the left side of an HGV when it's turning left or you will die.

Ride safe!

What he said. This is good advice you would do well to heed this information well

[Yorkie62]

Please no.

As a former bike instructor I implore you to get a bike license and understand how to ride a bike safely. You can do that and purchase a reliable mid size commuter for less than the price of a new MP3 500 LT. It isn't about bike control, it is about roadcraft and defensive riding, which you can't get from driving a car.

I've never tried a 3 wheel scooter ...
.

As a RoSPA Gold standard Rider I agree with Bluetoaster get yourself a bike licence if you want to go down this route. Anyone can twist the twisty thing and go fast, but road craft and observation are another skill. Just watch a Police motorcyclist ride and how effortlessly they make it, and how fast they ride!!!!!!

I have tried, and owned a 3 wheel Piaggio scooter. Used it for commuting to the train station when I was working in London. Saved on car parking charges and I didn't have to put all the bike gear I would normally wear when on the Ducati. They are also a hoot in the ice and snow, but that is another story, as they are almost impossible to fall off.

[Yorkie62]

Yes, it's been discussed here. Did you do a search?

Here's how it works:

1. You buy a motorbike which you will use wholly and exclusively for business.
2. Claim back the 20% VAT
3. Write off 100% of the cost of the motorbike against your company profits in the first year
4. Not sure if you can claim for protective gear but it's not hard to spend a grand on gear so it's worth checking if it's counted as "safety equipment".
5. The bike is still a company asset so when you sell it, you have to pay HMRC VAT on the sale price and the money from selling the asset goes into your company account as income. Of course, if the bike isn't in very good condition (damage/mileage etc) then your company might not get a very good price for it when it comes to sell. You might even buy it off the company at trade in value after a few years.

My calculations (probably completely wrong)

£12,000 bike

£2,000 VAT reclaimed
£2,000 CT avoided
You run it for 3 years and let's say the trade in value after that time is £6000 (INC VAT)
Pay £1,000 VAT on the sale to HMRC
Company takes £5,000 and pays £1,000 CT on that

Net saving over 3 years was £2,000 or 20% of the purchase cost.

If it's a company bike used only for business then you may be able to put all the running costs (insurance, tyres, servicing etc) through the company and there is a saving on that too.

Seems like it's worth doing IF you can justify it as a business use only vehicle and other use is merely incidental.

As the bike is owned by your co it will be responsible for maintenance costs. That is servicing every 6000 miles on your average bike 12000miles on a Ducati. Tyres - expect to replace the rear every 6000 miles front and rear every 12000 miles. You want good tyres as these are the only thing between you and the tarmac. Milchelin Pilot Road 4s - my personal recommendation - £450 for a pair. Servicing will cost around £200 to £400 a pop, depending if you use an independent mechanic or a dealership. I think you could easily use up the £2k you think you've saved on the purchase price just keeping the bike serviced.

[Lost It]

Another thought.

Way I do is is I bought my bike for cash, I insure it, the 25p per mile easily pays for fuel, tyres, spares, I claim the "PPE" off the business, insure it for Business use and 50,000 miles a year. Result is it owes me nothing and should I sell it it's mine to sell.

Tyres last about 6,000 miles if you are lucky. Tyres are expensive.

Buy the best PPE you can afford, you really do get what you pay for.

I've been riding for over 40 years now (I'm really tired now) and I can tell you the ONLY way to ride a bike is to presume that no-one else has seen you, they don't know you are there, you are invisible no matter what clothing you wear, how many lights you burn. That way you will not be surprised when cage drivers stop dead, turn right or left or do U turns without indicating, pull out from blind junctions, overtake cars and appear in front of you, try to force you off the road etc.

You need a lot more than "Basic Training".

[Lance]

however the registration document should show the registered keeper, i.e. the day to day user [/INDENT]

And even that isn't entirely true. I have a lease car that the finance company have the V5 for even though they've not even seen the car for nearly 2 years. Insuring it is more expensive because of that and some insurers won't sell you a policy if you don't have the V5.

Don't trust the police about law as they are not lawyers.

[DCG]

NC750 vs CB500X

"I purchased a Honda NC700X (dual clutch auto) through the company. It was invoiced to the company, the registered keeper is myself and it is insured in my name with full business use included. By purchasing it through the company you get the VAT back and also you can get 100% allowance in the first year against profit (I think that' the correct way of putting it). If you use the bike 100% for business purposes there is no benefit in kind. If you do use the bike personally you either have to reimburse the company for that proportion of the running costs or you'll incur the BIC charge - not good! So fuel, protective gear, servicing etc goes through the company."

Bearing in mind I will buy a bike anyway - may as well buy it through the company. NC750DCT looks great, but also the new '16 CB500X , not as good but significantly cheaper - any opinions?

Re. the tax etc. If I buy a £6K bike, ~£1.9K is VAT (assuming business use), so I am getting it for £5.1K. But, BiK is £1.2K (@40% £480). So the 6K in my bank I could have had £3600 if I take it as a dividend OR I could have a £6K bike, for £480 the 1st year & the same the 2nd year. I don't know if this then changes yrs 3, 4 etc. But eventually I sell it (or buy it myself), but by this stage it has depreciated, maybe scratched - even panels missing - who knows? so it may be worth only £2K. At which point the £2K goes back into the company minus some of it as VAT. I'm not getting how much of it would be VAT?

The other thing is, I understand the co. owning the bike, but me being the registered keeper & therefore insured. Any experience with getting a 'rider' policy i.e. to ride any bike. Then my enduro is insured for free?

[northernladuk]

Thread started 2 weeks ago might be more help

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...d-company.html

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

Interesting reading this thread ... have a personal bike for fun but going to follow the advice and buy a bike on the company for getting to the client site.

Anything changed in recent budgets to move the goalposts on this ?

[bluetoaster]

It really cannot be stressed enough how important training is. And CBT is exactly what is says - compulsory BASIC training, nothing more.

A biker is vulnerable on the road simply because there is no cage or air bag, and also much less likely to be seen. I am an advocate of biking, but done properly and safely (that doesn't mean slowly).

[Wanderer]

I may have misunderstood - is motorcycle traiing course different to CBT? I definetely want it to be safe ofcourse.

Yep, CBT is pretty basic. Maybe an afternoon in a car park or something. They just want to make sure you can start off, balance, do a figure of 8/u-turn without putting your feet down and apply at least 50% of the possible braking power in an emergency stop. If you can do all that without falling off then you are good to go.

You really need to do one of the longer courses with a view to passing your bike test. I know it's not a legal requirement but realistically you are riding a bike so you must learn the skills otherwise you will become another bloody statistic showing how dangerous these machines are. I suggest a 3 or 5 day one. They will also take you out on the road, probably in a group of 3 with a radio so they can talk to you as you ride. It's good fun and you will learn skills which will save you a lot of grief.

They will do a load of road theory, examples of stuff that car drivers aren't generally aware of are:

• Road surfaces and contamination, ruts, white lines, etc - have you ever noticed an oil/diesel spill on the road? Bikers notice them all the time because if they don't then they crash when they hit this stuff.
• Road positioning - you don't think about it much in a car because you are one lane wide but on a bike a single lane looks like 3 or 4 lanes and it's really important to be in the correct place on the road depending on what you are going to do next.
• Spacial awareness - as with road positioning there is a lot to take in and it's really important to understand what's happing around you.
• Co-existing with with other vehicles - sometimes they are hostile to you and you have to be able to make the right choices to keep out of harm's way.

And please, don't try and go around the left side of an HGV when it's turning left or you will die.

Ride safe!

[ContractorsSpouse]

I may have misunderstood - is motorcycle traiing course different to CBT? I definetely want it to be safe ofcourse.

CBT Training is a bare minimum, probably enough to get you from the dealership to home without making a complete Tw... err... fool of yourself. You should get more comprehensive training, at least something aimed at getting you to full licence level (even if you don't need a full licence). If you can find some specifically aimed at those 3-wheelers then even better.

HTH. Be careful out there...

[smalik]

Hi there, I think you are presuming about not looking up CBT - I was referring to the comment you made about its your life etc when I said I will do CBT. I know what is CBT and have already booked a session for next week. I appreciate your help and guidance as I am new to this but would be great if you are clear and without presumptions as it only helps both ways and those who are new to things may not have the knowledge that you may have accumulated over time. If you are referring to something totally different then apologies, please let me know what you mean and I will be very thank full.

I can understand why people can't be bothered to research stuff about their company's finances and stuff but when it comes to your personal safety not opening google and typing three letters in is almost criminal.

https://www.gov.uk/cbt-compulsory-ba...ining/overview