Reply to: Accountant recommendation threads inc local requests

[PerfectStorm]

Not sure Contractor Calculator should be advertising SJD's services, but they are in todays email...

Black Friday sale, apparently. Maybe they'll reply to an email or not leak some customer data.

[northernladuk]

I wonder what if any differences there are between Gorilla say, and my accountant (Workwell) to those currently being investigated.

Yes there are but if you don't understand what they are then you are in danger of being investigated. You have to be in business in your own right and not knowing what your accountant is actually doing for you and what your business is doing then you aren't being a business in your own right.

I spoke to Gorilla in person about this. There are plenty of articles about what an MSC is and experts opinion on what the specialist accounts are doing that would put them in scope. I know Gorilla has looked at this and their activities are hands off enough to ensure they are not part of it (as far as they know) (and for now). They don't advise, they just do accounts.

Now if you've asked your accountant a load of daft questions and they are being overly helpful on stuff you should be doing yourself then you aren't in a good place but Gorilla's standard offering is just accountancy.

Not a clue about Workwell. You need to ring them and ask them.. but again, if you don't have a pretty good grasp on what they should be doing for you then you are probably part of the problem already.

[coxy]

I wonder what if any differences there are between Gorilla say, and my accountant (Workwell) to those currently being investigated.

[northernladuk]

Hi all, tried to read through this before posting but it looks like the consensus was Gorilla = good but the last few messages seem to say different. Are they still a safe bet for a first timer?

I don't see anything in the last few messages that says any different. Quite the opposite, they've stated their position on the MSP thing so provided the clarity you need.

If you want a smaller set up then try Maslins or Paper Rocket. I've been with Gorilla about 9 years now but any of the three mentioned in this post and you'll be golden

[northernladuk]

When I queried Gorilla on the back of this latest HMRC investigation on CK and many other, I received below response.

All Gorilla’s advice is tailored to each client and we have no involvement in supplying workers, invoicing for their services or involved with the management of our clients company.

You can find some more detail here https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm3520 where it states: “Financial Secretary to HM Treasury said in Parliament on 15 May 2007: “there is a distinct difference…..between a person who provides independent, tailored advice to a client, who is then able to consider that advice before accepting it or rejecting it, and the person who simply supplies a client with a standard solution or product that the client accepts.”


I think this is pretty much what they do and have no involvement in my Ltd company.

I spoke to Gorilla at the CUK awards about this and they said the same. I know this as I'm a client as well so can confirm they do the accounting, nothing more. They advise the VAT amount, I still have to sign it off and at the same time they do sanity check of my accounts to check for claiming VAT on stuff that doesn't need it, that I've claimed my home working and so on and that's that. I'm confident they are supplying an accountantcy service and that's all.

[mbolton]

Hi all, tried to read through this before posting but it looks like the consensus was Gorilla = good but the last few messages seem to say different. Are they still a safe bet for a first timer?

[JHamp82]

GregRickshaw - thanks for the heads up. Seems the spot light is certainly on those companies at the moment. If i wanted to avoid this trap, who else would you recommend?

Is it more to do with a monthly fee, or the actual level of service provided that brings up the issue that you aren't 'running' your own company?

Gorilla accounting seem to have good reviews and mentioned on here, would they also fall under MSCP / MSP condition?

When I queried Gorilla on the back of this latest HMRC investigation on CK and many other, I received below response.

All Gorilla’s advice is tailored to each client and we have no involvement in supplying workers, invoicing for their services or involved with the management of our clients company.

You can find some more detail here https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm3520 where it states: “Financial Secretary to HM Treasury said in Parliament on 15 May 2007: “there is a distinct difference…..between a person who provides independent, tailored advice to a client, who is then able to consider that advice before accepting it or rejecting it, and the person who simply supplies a client with a standard solution or product that the client accepts.”


I think this is pretty much what they do and have no involvement in my Ltd company.

[Fred Bloggs]

Thanks for the inputs.
I won’t labour the point as it seems it’s been discussed to death elsewhere. I don’t really understand it, as a business owner surely it’s your decision on whether you wish to outsource a particular part to someone else.

you wouldn’t not call someone a homeowner if they pay for a cleaner monthly. It just means that the cleaning company do that task well and are more skilled at it then I am 😄 (poor example i know).

I probably need to read up on it further, either that or take an accountancy course, and become ACA approved.

Yes it's been done to death already. But the reality is that there is a serious attempt underway by HMRC to raise substantial revenue by labelling certain accountants as MSC providers. If they win their case against boox and/or CK then it seems it's open season chasing any small Ltd Co that has used an accountant that provides services via a customised portal in return for a monthly fee. In all honesty, I might be in a minority in suggesting this, but I really would not engage an accountant on a monthly fee at the moment. If I had an accountant on a monthly deal, I would be looking to end the service at the next year end.

For disclosure, I am presently not working and the last couple of Ltd Co jobs I did were wholly DIY affairs. No accountant involved.

[Rik1087]

Thanks for the inputs.
I won’t labour the point as it seems it’s been discussed to death elsewhere. I don’t really understand it, as a business owner surely it’s your decision on whether you wish to outsource a particular part to someone else.

you wouldn’t not call someone a homeowner if they pay for a cleaner monthly. It just means that the cleaning company do that task well and are more skilled at it then I am 😄 (poor example i know).

I probably need to read up on it further, either that or take an accountancy course, and become ACA approved.

[Fred Bloggs]

GregRickshaw - thanks for the heads up. Seems the spot light is certainly on those companies at the moment. If i wanted to avoid this trap, who else would you recommend?

Is it more to do with a monthly fee, or the actual level of service provided that brings up the issue that you aren't 'running' your own company?

Gorilla accounting seem to have good reviews and mentioned on here, would they also fall under MSCP / MSP condition?

The answer is nobody knows. But if CK and boox lose their MSCP cases then it's game on. The smart move right now is use FreeAgent properly and use an accountant of your choice for ad hoc one off tasks like year end. Do the annual confirmation at Companies House, HMRC VAT and MTD submissions yourself.

[ladymuck]

GregRickshaw - thanks for the heads up. Seems the spot light is certainly on those companies at the moment. If i wanted to avoid this trap, who else would you recommend?

Is it more to do with a monthly fee, or the actual level of service provided that brings up the issue that you aren't 'running' your own company?

Gorilla accounting seem to have good reviews and mentioned on here, would they also fall under MSCP / MSP condition?

It's about the service. What are you paying for the accountant to do and what will you be doing yourself? Do you know what the various financial statements look like and how to interpret them? Are you expecting to be fully engaged in the financial management of your company or are you expecting your accountant to run everything for you and give you a form to sign once a year?

Monthly payments are just the annual fee for the year end work broken down into 12 instalments. Don't go thinking that you're paying for a monthly service, like a mobile phone.

[Rik1087]

GregRickshaw - thanks for the heads up. Seems the spot light is certainly on those companies at the moment. If i wanted to avoid this trap, who else would you recommend?

Is it more to do with a monthly fee, or the actual level of service provided that brings up the issue that you aren't 'running' your own company?

Gorilla accounting seem to have good reviews and mentioned on here, would they also fall under MSCP / MSP condition?

[GregRickshaw]

Hi All,

just doing the rounds of contacting accountants for an outside contract, via LTD.

Had a call from pay stream after using their calculator, very much a sales pitch but produced an illustration at the end with fairly accurate data (expenses, tax efficient salary, days worked vs holiday etc) - and it came out incredibly high to what I was expecting. 83% take home to be exact…

Can I assume that the sales pitch vs reality is very different once you receive your first pay? Or should I just run a mile now!?

they also were pointing me towards their upper end package which on paper seems to provide a fair amount, but it’s £150 + Vat a month!

anyone used them via a limited before?

Packaged products and monthly fees... look up MSCP and MSC on this forum then decide.

[Rik1087]

Hi All,

just doing the rounds of contacting accountants for an outside contract, via LTD.

Had a call from pay stream after using their calculator, very much a sales pitch but produced an illustration at the end with fairly accurate data (expenses, tax efficient salary, days worked vs holiday etc) - and it came out incredibly high to what I was expecting. 83% take home to be exact…

Can I assume that the sales pitch vs reality is very different once you receive your first pay? Or should I just run a mile now!?

they also were pointing me towards their upper end package which on paper seems to provide a fair amount, but it’s £150 + Vat a month!

anyone used them via a limited before?

[Dark Black]

I am with Gorilla and I personally think(after reading online feedback and personal experience) they are far better than many of the others. Dedicated accountant and same day response service gives me a peace of mind that if there is anything urgent, I can just pick up the phone and get straight to my accountant!

Happy to share my referral if you decide to join them.

This. Recently joined them from NW. Early days of course, but have so far been very impressed with their responses and professionalism.