Reply to: Expenses related to the Limited Company.

[Old Greg]

My take on an iPad is:

I have a new Netbook through my Ltd. and a large laptop (4 years old and battery dead so not worth investing in). I see the Netbook as easy to justify, as when I turn up to a new client site and they take 3 days to sort me out with PC, log-in etc., I'm there on day 1 able to work with MS Office, Project, email access. It's also small enough that I'm able to lug it half way across the country every day and work on the train. I would struggle to justify an iPad on that (or indeed any other) basis, when sat face to face in front of one of Her Majesty's finest.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

IMHO I think you would have a hard time justifying an ipad under the wholly and exclusively rule unless you were on the road all the time; I think that HMR&C would argue duality of purpose

[Jog On]

I have a fairly long commute and am considering getitng a cheap tablet to watch certification videos and read PDFs.

It will be <£200 though so going to expense it.

[jmo21]

How exactly would it be proved you were not using it for only business purposes?

What lengths could they go to?

I suppose it all comes down to whether you think it's worth the risk.

It seems to me for an IT provider, why would they bother trying to prove a piece of IT equipment was not for your business.

I don't have one myself, but current client co permie PM has one, and he uses it very effectively for note taking in meetings, much as you might use a tablet PC, or a laptop.

[Cr1spy]

Plus if you buy an iPad this year you will have to wait a few versions before you can get another one.

If you're using an iPad as development / test platform for your products, you could justify owning a version [of iPad] that you planned to support. Same goes for phones and mobile development, iPhone, Android, WP7, Blackberry*, etc.

* Actually strike that, not worth owning a blackberry...

[Wanderer]

I agree the 'wholly and exclusively' is a bit iffy but who hasn't browsed their facebook acct on their company laptop? For me it's such a grey area these days but as long as you can justify a genuine business need i.e. without it my ability to run my business would suffer it's fair game.

The equipment is primarily for business use and the fact that someone uses it for facebook (or whatever the cool kids use these days) is purely incidental to the primary purpose.

[SueEllen]

Very true SE but at some point you could look like you're taking the P.


If you buy a company desktop (server ;-)) and a mobile device then you are (IMHO) ok.

It depends on what you do and where your clients are.

If you do a lot of travelling and/or have to provide your own kit for some of your clients you are likely to have more stuff.

If you tend to have one client at a time, are always working on the client site, and using their kit then you won't need a lot of stuff yourself.

However I've met contractors who have managed with desktop PCs at home and a mobile until the client asked them to bring "their laptop in" to work from. They have been a bit shocked.

Once you start down the; I need an ipod for business podcasts + a laptop for MySQL + an ipad for when I'm in a taxi + and iphone for calls + a 50 inch TV for Bloomberg stock tips cos I own some shares etc. You're entering the pi$$take region.

You could justify each individual one but not all. An IPad without a laptop maybe ok but the wording of the OP looked a little bit like I want to but something for me through the company since IMHO it's not the best business tool out there.

I worked with one guy who had an iPad, which he used extensively, a laptop and iPhone. He is a PM.

There as I know someone else who has something like 4 netbooks, 3 laptops and a monitor plus various other older bits and pieces plus an android phone. He works on OS.

Unless you dev ipod apps as part of your business you may struggle. Especially if you buy other kit to. (which I concede was not part of the OP)

Apple products come at a premium price so apart from say a laptop, all the other stuff he would buy for business use would be a maximum of a couple of hundred pounds so wouldn't be classed as assets.

Oh and unless the 50 inch TV is actually a monitor due to there price you aren't going to get that through the books.

Plus if you buy an iPad this year you will have to wait a few versions before you can get another one.

[northernladuk]

Very true SE but at some point you could look like you're taking the P.

If you buy a company desktop (server ;-)) and a mobile device then you are (IMHO) ok.

Once you start down the; I need an ipod for business podcasts + a laptop for MySQL + an ipad for when I'm in a taxi + and iphone for calls + a 50 inch TV for Bloomberg stock tips cos I own some shares etc. You're entering the pi$$take region.

You could justify each individual one but not all. An IPad without a laptop maybe ok but the wording of the OP looked a little bit like I want to but something for me through the company since IMHO it's not the best business tool out there.

Unless you dev ipod apps as part of your business you may struggle. Especially if you buy other kit to. (which I concede was not part of the OP)

This kinda sums up my thinking. Quite a few guys in the office have iPads and they do nothing but read or browse the web on them. They do read mail on it but again most of that is personal mail. A couple of them did buy them through the company but I just could not justify one. Keeping a few manuals and checking forums compared to the amount of personal use means I just couldn't justify it. I am pretty sure no one is ever going to get investigated and hung out to dry for buying one but for saving 20% or so putting it through the books just isn't worth it for me.

[Pondlife]

Very true SE but at some point you could look like you're taking the P.

If you buy a company desktop (server ;-)) and a mobile device then you are (IMHO) ok.

Once you start down the; I need an ipod for business podcasts + a laptop for MySQL + an ipad for when I'm in a taxi + and iphone for calls + a 50 inch TV for Bloomberg stock tips cos I own some shares etc. You're entering the pi$$take region.

You could justify each individual one but not all. An IPad without a laptop maybe ok but the wording of the OP looked a little bit like I want to but something for me through the company since IMHO it's not the best business tool out there.

Unless you dev ipod apps as part of your business you may struggle. Especially if you buy other kit to. (which I concede was not part of the OP)

[SueEllen]

I don't have one but I could argue that I have a desktop PC in my home office but since I spend so much time on the road I need to be able to access email etc. I'm not sure these days you can differentiate between an iPad, netbook or laptop.

I agree the 'wholly and exclusively' is a bit iffy but who hasn't browsed their facebook acct on their company laptop? For me it's such a grey area these days but as long as you can justify a genuine business need i.e. without it my ability to run my business would suffer it's fair game.

Business link have a whole section on how businesses should use social media.

So even browsing your Facebook account could be a business activity.

This is especially true if you have a group or page for you business linked to the account.

I would struggle to justify this post as being 'wholly and exclusively' but I'm posting from MyCos laptop

This part of the forum is for checking that you are running your business efficiently a bit like you using advisers.

[Pondlife]

Never having owned an iPad and not really fussed about getting one can you justify it as wholly exlusively? I thought they were more a social toy than business tool?

I don't have one but I could argue that I have a desktop PC in my home office but since I spend so much time on the road I need to be able to access email etc. I'm not sure these days you can differentiate between an iPad, netbook or laptop.

I agree the 'wholly and exclusively' is a bit iffy but who hasn't browsed their facebook acct on their company laptop? For me it's such a grey area these days but as long as you can justify a genuine business need i.e. without it my ability to run my business would suffer it's fair game.

I would struggle to justify this post as being 'wholly and exclusively' but I'm posting from MyCos laptop (hence I don't need an iPad)

Edit: Just to add. I do have a kindle that I did not claim for because I can't really justify it as a requirement since I can read all the ebooks I own on my laptop. It seemed to stretch it a bit too far. Ditto for iPods etc.

[eek]

Never having owned an iPad and not really fussed about getting one can you justify it as wholly exlusively? I thought they were more a social toy than business tool?

I mainly use mine for keeping the 100 textbooks I like to have around on the off chance I need the answer to something.

I didn't expense it through the company as it was £100 +£20 a month on three when the ipad2 appeared. I probably could expense one for development and testing purposes but I'm not that bothered at the moment.

[northernladuk]

I think you can expense something like an iPad it as long as it's wholly and exclusively for business use and personal use is not significant. I also thing that if the value is <£500 then it's just accounted for as an expense rather than an asset though it's worth double checking this.

Never having owned an iPad and not really fussed about getting one can you justify it as wholly exlusively? I thought they were more a social toy than business tool?

[SueEllen]

Are there any rules about what constitues as a business asset and what it is used for to be eligible as such? For example iphones were not considered the same as a Blackberry until recently.

Would the iPad fall in to the same catagory that it is a gadget that happens to do a few things rather than a dedicated business tool (lets assume you are not running specific client apps on it like proscape etc, just general use, bit of mail, web browsing) or have they canned that line of thinking now?

There is absolutely nothing on their pages saying anything specifically about iPads, Kindles etc.

Probably because it's impossible to keep up with the different small gadgets businesses would find useful.

[Wanderer]

I think you can expense something like an iPad it as long as it's wholly and exclusively for business use and personal use is not significant. I also thing that if the value is <£500 then it's just accounted for as an expense rather than an asset though it's worth double checking this.