Reply to: Invoicing end of month - no bus account or VAT yet?

[Old Greg]

I think when I started up , I agreed with the agency that I wouldn't invoice until I had the paperwork in place. But I wasn't in a hurry for the cash.

[psychocandy]

That is advice when selling to the general public. Don't do that to a VAT registered company as it will really p** them off.

Simply invoice the non-VAT items now and create a separate VAT only invoice later. Oh and speak to the Agency as they will be used to this occurring and will explain exactly what you need to do.

Strangely enough the agency seem to be giving the impression that I'm trying to be awkward with this. Like you say, surely I'm not the first ever contractor to do this....

Oh well, nothings easy is it?

[eek]

Found this on HMRC website :-

Invoicing in the meantime

Until you receive your VAT registration number you must not charge VAT, or show VAT as a separate item on your invoices. To make sure that you do not lose income in the period after you applied for VAT registration but before you receive your VAT registration number, you should increase your prices by an amount equivalent to the VAT rate relevant for your goods or services, and explain to your customers why you are doing so.

Once you receive your VAT registration number you can then reissue those invoices, amended to show your VAT registration number and the VAT charged. This will ensure that your VAT-registered customers can reclaim the VAT that they have paid.

So looks like the plan is to issue a gross invoice and then issue a proper one later. Not sure how the agency will react to having to stump up the gross amount and then having to wait for me to get VAT sorted though?
If it comes down to it, I think I'll let them pay the net amount, then make sure they pay the 20% VAT when I send them a proper invoice with the VAT reg on.

That is advice when selling to the general public. Don't do that to a VAT registered company as it will really p** them off.

Simply invoice the non-VAT items now and create a separate VAT only invoice later. Oh and speak to the Agency as they will be used to this occurring and will explain exactly what you need to do.

[psychocandy]

Found this on HMRC website :-

Invoicing in the meantime

Until you receive your VAT registration number you must not charge VAT, or show VAT as a separate item on your invoices. To make sure that you do not lose income in the period after you applied for VAT registration but before you receive your VAT registration number, you should increase your prices by an amount equivalent to the VAT rate relevant for your goods or services, and explain to your customers why you are doing so.

Once you receive your VAT registration number you can then reissue those invoices, amended to show your VAT registration number and the VAT charged. This will ensure that your VAT-registered customers can reclaim the VAT that they have paid.

So looks like the plan is to issue a gross invoice and then issue a proper one later. Not sure how the agency will react to having to stump up the gross amount and then having to wait for me to get VAT sorted though?
If it comes down to it, I think I'll let them pay the net amount, then make sure they pay the 20% VAT when I send them a proper invoice with the VAT reg on.

[Wanderer]

They did try to tell me they couldn't pay me without a VAT reg on the invoice.

I think what they were trying to say is that you can't raise a VAT invoice without a VAT number, though as others say - you can raise an invoice without VAT and then invoice for VAT later.

[MarillionFan]

Just because the money is in your personal account doesn't mean it's yours. There's nothing wrong with getting paid to your personal account, although that's not to say it isn't best avoided. You could even call it a director's loan if you were being really anal about it.
I don't know why people get so panicky about this. It's no different from buying something from your personal account and then getting the expenses refunded. If I was in the same position, I'd rather have the money under my control ASAP even if it wasn't in the right place.
I agent has no grounds for refusing.

WVS.

If your bank account is not ready
you provide a personal sortcode, personal account number and you write the name of your company. This allows you to get paid and as long as you don't make some hoo haa about it to the agency then they won't know. Then xfer later. It's not ideal but I'd rather invoice quickly and get paid into the 'wrong' account than not get paid at all.

Concerning the 'Euro' part, Im not sure.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Just because the money is in your personal account doesn't mean it's yours. There's nothing wrong with getting paid to your personal account, although that's not to say it isn't best avoided. You could even call it a director's loan if you were being really anal about it.

I don't know why people get so panicky about this. It's no different from buying something from your personal account and then getting the expenses refunded. If I was in the same position, I'd rather have the money under my control ASAP even if it wasn't in the right place.

I agree, whilst it's not ideal you can still do it as long as there is a clear paper trail and the money is transferred back to your business account. Like you say, if you want to cover all your bases you could classify it as a director's loan that is repaid when you transfer it back.

For a while I had to receive all payments for my iPhone app sales into my personal account; I created invoices for all of my payments and transferred the payments from Apple straight to my business account. I had to do this as Apple could not pay me directly into my business account at the time (Cater Allen) as Cater Allen didn't accept direct international transfers. I've since moved to HSBC and I now get paid directly into my business account.

[VectraMan]

1. Get the agency to pay into my personal account first time off. (I guess then I can just transfer when it is open).

No you need a business account as the money is not yours until you pay it to yourself.

Just because the money is in your personal account doesn't mean it's yours. There's nothing wrong with getting paid to your personal account, although that's not to say it isn't best avoided. You could even call it a director's loan if you were being really anal about it.

I don't know why people get so panicky about this. It's no different from buying something from your personal account and then getting the expenses refunded. If I was in the same position, I'd rather have the money under my control ASAP even if it wasn't in the right place.

I had to do the seperate VAT invoices thing myself, and it is a PITA, but legally that's what you have to do and the agent has no grounds for refusing.

[SueEllen]

Well sorted out with the agency (eventually). At first they tried to say I couldnt invoice without a VAT no !!! Yeh, right.

Anyway, when I kicked off they agreed to do it the way the other posters here have suggested. Even though they say its 'VERY COMPLICATED' for them to do this. I was nearly crying I felt so bad !!!!!

It's not complicated.

It just means its slightly harder for their accounts person/bookkeeper to balance their own VAT payments. However if they have more than one contractor they should already know how to do this.

[psychocandy]

Yes.

I stated that previously.

All clients whether they are agencies or direct can pay you without VAT.

However if you are VAT registered you have to chase them up to pay the extra VAT otherwise you will be the one paying HMRC from your own money.

Well sorted out with the agency (eventually). At first they tried to say I couldnt invoice without a VAT no !!! Yeh, right.

Anyway, when I kicked off they agreed to do it the way the other posters here have suggested. Even though they say its 'VERY COMPLICATED' for them to do this. I was nearly crying I felt so bad !!!!!

[SueEllen]

Now when I kicked up a fuss and told them I wasnt going to wait 6-8 weeks to get paid, they agreed to pay VAT exclusive first and then pay VAT portion later. I'm assuming I shouldnt include VAT on first invoice (since I dont have reg no) but instead do a separate vat only invoice referring back to first one when I do?

Yes.

I stated that previously.

All clients whether they are agencies or direct can pay you without VAT.

However if you are VAT registered you have to chase them up to pay the extra VAT otherwise you will be the one paying HMRC from your own money.

[psychocandy]

Nah. Thanks for the offer but I dont think I'll do Brolly.

Bank Account application is underway now so fingers crossed for that one.

VAT registration done last week - waiting. Sorted agency out with regards to that. They did try to tell me they couldn't pay me without a VAT reg on the invoice.

Now when I kicked up a fuss and told them I wasnt going to wait 6-8 weeks to get paid, they agreed to pay VAT exclusive first and then pay VAT portion later. I'm assuming I shouldnt include VAT on first invoice (since I dont have reg no) but instead do a separate vat only invoice referring back to first one when I do?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

IT depends on the brolly and the agency to be fair, if they work together there's no reason why all of that can't be sorted out within a few days

[Clare@InTouch]

Just though though. Complicated a little by the fact that I'm going to paid in Euros.

I was planning on opening a sterling and euro account with Cater Allen, so that I dont lose too much when I transfer between. (Any idea how long they take?)

Otherwise, I guess if I open a standard business account somewhere else I'm going to get charged fees for foreign payment?

Around 10 working days is standard, keeping in mind of course that there's a bank holiday next week that may slow things down.

[northernladuk]

Just though though. Complicated a little by the fact that I'm going to paid in Euros.

I was planning on opening a sterling and euro account with Cater Allen, so that I dont lose too much when I transfer between. (Any idea how long they take?)

Otherwise, I guess if I open a standard business account somewhere else I'm going to get charged fees for foreign payment?

Sorry but from what I can see is you are starting work and are not in a position to get paid. Surely your focus should now be spent speaking to the banks and asking them these questions right now, not asking for general advice on a forum. We can't carry you the whole way. You have to get out there and do some digging with the banks. You want to know how long Cater Allen will take to open and options about Euro/Sterling... then ring them and ask... now!