Contractor with company for over 4 years... any obligation to make me permanent?

[chicane]

Indeed, absolutely true. The shame is it's a myth and the HR departments that hand out those policies aren't in command of the facts.

I've heard the policy mentioned at loads of clients and the managers can't do a damn thing as they have to obey the rules formulated by HR muppets.

The manager at my current client of nearly 4 years pulled me into an meeting room last month and offered me two options - either go permanent immediately or leave at the end of the week (and the end of the contract). This was in response to some "2 year" policy sent down the chain by HR.

After a brief and somewhat futile discussion regarding potential permie salary, I thanked him for the opportunity and said I'd leave at the end of the contract. My contract was subsequently renewed after a week of watching daytime TV at home, and I should be on site until at least June.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if your client/manager values you sufficiently, they will take on HR and their irrational rules in an attempt to keep you on.

[TykeMerc]

I suspect that's not the particular "two year rule" that is being referred to here
Most companies dislike having contractors past a certain point for fear that just like the OP they start to claim they are a permie
At this point they like try to get rid of contractors regardless of their value due to some mindless HR policy (or maybe convert to perm)
Time frame varies from client to client, sometimes 1 year sometimes 2, sometimes a random time period
Usually doesn't always stop a renewal, but add lot's of extra hoops to get sign off

Indeed, absolutely true. The shame is it's a myth and the HR departments that hand out those policies aren't in command of the facts.

I've heard the policy mentioned at loads of clients and the managers can't do a damn thing as they have to obey the rules formulated by HR muppets.

[MonzaMike]

"Two year rule" is to do with travelling to a permanent place of work and travelling expenses, as defined by HMRC.

You have to face facts - the ClientCo is keeping you because you are cheaper than permies and easier to let go in the case of a downturn. The words "having their cake" and "eat it" spring to mind - for them.

Choices are to put up or shut up - but what's to stop you enquiring as to whether they would make you permanent?

I suspect that's not the particular "two year rule" that is being referred to here

Most companies dislike having contractors past a certain point for fear that just like the OP they start to claim they are a permie

At this point they like try to get rid of contractors regardless of their value due to some mindless HR policy (or maybe convert to perm)

Time frame varies from client to client, sometimes 1 year sometimes 2, sometimes a random time period

Usually doesn't always stop a renewal, but add lot's of extra hoops to get sign off

[TykeMerc]

"Two year rule" is to do with travelling to a permanent place of work and travelling expenses, as defined by HMRC.

You have to face facts - the ClientCo is keeping you because you are cheaper than permies and easier to let go in the case of a downturn. The words "having their cake" and "eat it" spring to mind - for them.

Choices are to put up or shut up - but what's to stop you enquiring as to whether they would make you permanent?

Absolutely, in the clients position if I could get a long term contract resource for less than a permie I'd definitely do it.

As Dearnla pointed out the two year rule I mentioned refers to expenses incurred at a temporary workplace. Some people and HR departments think there's an obligation on clients after 2 years, but that's an urban myth.

[Dearnla]

"Two year rule" is to do with travelling to a permanent place of work and travelling expenses, as defined by HMRC.

You have to face facts - the ClientCo is keeping you because you are cheaper than permies and easier to let go in the case of a downturn. The words "having their cake" and "eat it" spring to mind - for them.

Choices are to put up or shut up - but what's to stop you enquiring as to whether they would make you permanent?

[singhr]

Quick question..
I started this contract in Jan 2007, initially it was a 6 month rolling contract that kept getting renewed.
Last July it was renewed for a year.

I work through an umbrella and always have, although im a contractor it's not a temporary job it's an ongoing desktop support role and we're busier than ever. I work with 2 guy's that are permanent, get paid a bit more than me, get 6 weeks holiday a year and get loads of company benefits.

Is the company under no obligation to take me on as a permie after a certain period?

Not the sharpest sockie in the toolshed are you

[Support Monkey]

I did very nicely thank you on less than that going via limited a few years back now but the benefits far outweighted the disadvantages especially paying low wage and dividends and even the small VAT amout makes it worth it and going forward all was in place when the bigger and better contracts came along, if your going to be contracting for more than 12 months i say go limited

Several people said to me (public sector) even the management people that there was a 2 year rule and they would have to take me on after this point, i think this may have been the case for some temps placements years ago but there is no such rule now

[Clare@InTouch]

Probably not by much if his "salary" is less than £43k (or whatever the magic number is now).

You can gain on around £35k, so possibly still worth considering.

[ChimpMaster]

Four years through an umbrella

Whilst I do not know your rate, I would have thought you would gain if you switched to a limited company.

Probably not by much if his "salary" is less than £43k (or whatever the magic number is now).

[Waldorf]

Four years through an umbrella

Whilst I do not know your rate, I would have thought you would gain if you switched to a limited company.

[TykeMerc]

The client has absolutely no obligation to you, for that matter you're working there as the full time employee of your Umbrella. Your situation as far as the client in concerned is very little different than if you were a full time employee of IBM and on site.

Your rate is a matter for you to negotiate, the one advantage you had is you could expense a fair few things until you hit the two year rule.

[Wanderer]

I work with 2 guy's that are permanent, get paid a bit more than me, get 6 weeks holiday a year and get loads of company benefits. Is the company under no obligation to take me on as a permie after a certain period?

No, but if I were you I'd be asking for a permie job and a pay rise!

[TheAnalyst]

No. You're a contractor. If there were any such "obligation" it would have applied from day one.

However you have to ask why you're staying if you're getting less than the permies...

Fair enough.
I'm staying because it pays a hell of a lot more than anything else the same that I've seen in the last year at least.

[malvolio]

Quick question..
I started this contract in Jan 2007, initially it was a 6 month rolling contract that kept getting renewed.
Last July it was renewed for a year.

I work through an umbrella and always have, although im a contractor it's not a temporary job it's an ongoing desktop support role and we're busier than ever. I work with 2 guy's that are permanent, get paid a bit more than me, get 6 weeks holiday a year and get loads of company benefits.

Is the company under no obligation to take me on as a permie after a certain period?

No. You're a contractor. If there were any such "obligation" it would have applied from day one.

However you have to ask why you're staying if you're getting less than the permies...

[TheAnalyst]

Quick question..
I started this contract in Jan 2007, initially it was a 6 month rolling contract that kept getting renewed.
Last July it was renewed for a year.

I work through an umbrella and always have, although im a contractor it's not a temporary job it's an ongoing desktop support role and we're busier than ever. I work with 2 guy's that are permanent, get paid a bit more than me, get 6 weeks holiday a year and get loads of company benefits.

Is the company under no obligation to take me on as a permie after a certain period?