Reply to: Invoice dispute - non payment - timesheet not authorised

[Wanderer]

A bit, no sorry, very gullible, weren't we?

Hope you get it sorted but I'd be surprised. Sounds like they had no intention of paying from the outset and wanted someone to do the work for free.

How to you figure that out? Or are you just being a troll?

[BolshieBastard]

Hi all,

I've contracted for several years as a LTD company through agencies. For the first time ever had an invoice disputed.

I was approached by an agency regarding a 3 month role. I attended interview with the end company. They asked me to complete an initial piece of work in between 1 and 5 days as a trial.

I was asked, both in writing by the agency and verbally by the director of the end company, to complete an IT due diligence report. Specifically to review a support proposal, further document a bespoke application and highlight any risks in the proposal. I completed this work in 3.5, submitted the draft doc and was asked to make some changes. This I did taking another half day.

On submitting my time-sheets the company has disputed my work. Specifically they have said my document lacks basic information such as server IP addresses, desktop OS versions, desktop software used, etc. It turns our they expected a build document detailing all the information needed to implement the support proposal - not a due diligence.

Subsequently they have not authorised my timesheets. They have offered to pay me for two days - stating that one of there perm consultants could have completed the same work in that time.

I have no idea where I stand on this one. I'd really appreciate any advice any one else can offer?

Kind Regards.

A bit, no sorry, very gullible, weren't we?

Hope you get it sorted but I'd be surprised. Sounds like they had no intention of paying from the outset and wanted someone to do the work for free.

First thing, the lesson to take out of this is to always document the requirement the client is seeking to fulfil. Even if it's an email, anything written down is an agreement. It's always a good idea to document the scope of work in your deliverable document in any case so you are effectively depleting back to them your understanding of the scope.

The way I'd tackle this is to invoice them for the full amount along with a letter that formally advises them that they are 'estopped' from using your work product until invoice payment in full has been received. I would also put a clear payment timescale on the invoice of 7 days ( you can define what you want unless it has been agreed otherwise ) and then follow that up with a letter.

I'm with you, stick to your principles otherwise you get no respect,
.

[prozak]

Lot of posters mention taking to the small courts. But to be honest I've never gone all the way with it.

Has anyone actually done this and been successful?

Yep.

Money Claim Online makes it easy.

Not done it for contracting but took Thomas Cook to court and am about to take a painter to court.

[d000hg]

Really? So if I get a builder around, and say "I want a conservatory." and they build it, I'm then within my rights to say "Oh, no, I wanted a conservatory made from metal and glass, not uPVC. Tell you what, I'll give you £50 and we'll call it quits"?

Even if I didn't originally specify that?

If they were a cowboy and the windows all leaked, what about then? I'm not sure what the law is if no regulations are broken and this is more what malvolio suggest I think.

[apple]

I think it's up to £5000 in small claims. Check out these links:

Moneyclaim online
The Thomas Higgins Partnership | Business Debt Collection Solicitors

good luck

Thanks Wanderer .... these are very useful.

Will keep you all posted of progress.

[Jog On]

This is something I absolutely cannot stand about some SMEs. Because they're flying by the seat of their pants they seem to think it's acceptable to move goalposts, dupe people into working for free and look for any reason to complain about stuff done to get a refund/more work and basically try and get something for nothing..

I've had this lots when I've built websites for them, done bits of IT for them and online marketing. I'd stick to your guns and persue whoever is legally obliged to pay your invoice, if the client won't pay the agency then the agency can take that up with them that's not your problem. You did the work they asked you to do and spent billable time you could have been spending elsewhere.

If you did what they asked for but they're now saying they're not happy because they actually wanted something else which they didn't specify I'd not let them get away with it as they'll just keep on doing it to other people. I've seen it done so many times when I was a permie at an SME. They even asked me once to disable some contractor developer's network account after he'd done a load of work and they weren't going to pay him. It was premeditated and planned. Shysters shysters shysters

Being a small business with tight cashflow does not excuse screwing people over like this. This is whay I'm very hesitant to get involved with any SME's for anything these days as I always end up doing more work/headache than I'm getting paid for. Don't let them get away with it, the agency or the client - it's not your problem who pays you and they can sort it out between themselves.

[Wanderer]

I believe small claims can only be made for under a certain amount (£500 ish) is that correct?

How would engaging a debt collector work? Anybody with experience of that?

I think it's up to £5000 in small claims. Check out these links:

Moneyclaim online
The Thomas Higgins Partnership | Business Debt Collection Solicitors

good luck

[apple]

Many thanks everyone for your time and input. It's really appreciated!

I'm more than happy to discuss this with the agency and keep chasing the payment. However I suspect they won't budge, if their client (the end company) won't pay they would have to take the loss to pay me. Highly unlikely from any agency.

I believe small claims can only be made for under a certain amount (£500 ish) is that correct?

How would engaging a debt collector work? Anybody with experience of that?

Cheers

[Wanderer]

I wasn't asked to quote for a specific piece of work. I was offered a rolling one day contract. I completed 3.5 days.

Then they can pay you for the time worked. Don't take any tulip from them.

I'd be inclined to pass it to a debt collectors or send the agency a final warning followed by starting a small claims court action in the hope that they just back down and pay up. You could also try passing it to debt collectors, someone here mentioned that they had success with that.

Don't forget that your contract is with the agent not the client...

[MarillionFan]

If I felt I had to pursue it, I'd invoice the agency for the full amount. When the invoice isn't paid, I'd start dunning. When it still wasn't paid, having given the agency plenty of time to pay and lots of reminders, I'd take it through the small claims court. Of course, I'd add the admin charge and interest etc.

I'd forget about talking to the client. Your contract isn't with them.

Lot of posters mention taking to the small courts. But to be honest I've never gone all the way with it.

Has anyone actually done this and been successful?

[NotAllThere]

If I felt I had to pursue it, I'd invoice the agency for the full amount. When the invoice isn't paid, I'd start dunning. When it still wasn't paid, having given the agency plenty of time to pay and lots of reminders, I'd take it through the small claims court. Of course, I'd add the admin charge and interest etc.

I'd forget about talking to the client. Your contract isn't with them.

[eek]

The more I think about this the more I would rather get paid in full or take nothing. This is the basis of what all business transactions in this country are based on. You ask someone to do a job, they do it, you pay them.

As they reviewed the document and did not raise the issue at that moment in time (or as you walked out the door) I would be invoicing them for the lot. I guess there is an agent in the middle to make it far harder to deal with.

[VectraMan]

I completed this work in 3.5, submitted the draft doc and was asked to make some changes.

If what you were doing was missing fundamental information and not what they wanted, why didn't they bring it up when they reviewed the draft?

Sounds like they're inventing reasons to get a discount, which is the kind of thing small companies like to do.

[apple]

I really appreciate the comments here. Thanks for taking the time.

I didn't want to get into the tech details of what was asked but it's looking like they're becoming relevant. The basic proposal I was reviewing was taking a companies IT infrastructure into support. The proposal was relatively simple, essentially to create a VM of each server and move the lot off site. The desktops stayed as they were.

I spent two days interviewing staff from each business area, documenting org structure and information flow. My report found no risk in virtualising the core file and print systems as this has been done countless times before. I performed server monitoring on the database server and highlighted virtualising this as an area of risk. I also highlighted the proposed bandwidth between the DC and client site as an area of risk.

In short I provided a wealth of information they didn't have and pre-empted the two areas that could cause them a huge problem.

Their feedback 'we can't use your report to build the vmware environment'. I know this, my report was never intended for that purpose.

The more I think about this the more I would rather get paid in full or take nothing. This is the basis of what all business transactions in this country are based on. You ask someone to do a job, they do it, you pay them.