Reply to: client travel query

[The Wikir Man]

Thanks for all the top advice given so far.

Just wanted to ask otehrws who do client travel what expenses can be claimed with and without a receipt?

I thought you can clain some incidentals without receipt up to £5 per day, is this still allowable?

You can claim £5 or (I think) £15 if overseas. HOWEVER, that is the HMRC rule - you need to check with either your client (if they are paying it) or take it from your company if you are paying it to yourself as an employee.

[diesel]

Thanks for all the top advice given so far.

Just wanted to ask otehrws who do client travel what expenses can be claimed with and without a receipt?

I thought you can clain some incidentals without receipt up to £5 per day, is this still allowable?

[Wanderer]

I have been with this client for a few years now, and never travelled with them before. SO this is first expense claim i will be submitting if i go on the trip.

My advice to you is to take a deep breath and just get on with it. Do the trip and take the extra few hours pay. If you are that worried about IR35 then don't claim any expenses through the client - put them all through your company and pay for it out of your company profits.

And when you are all done, thank your lucky stars that you've been with the client for a few years and this is the first time you've been asked to travel for them. Lots of poor sods are on and off aircraft every week, getting delayed, spending hours in crappy airport lounges, traveling cattle class, staying in cheap hotels in the middle of nowhere, up and about at silly times of the days to catch flights. And paying for all this out of their own company profits.

A bit of good will between you and your clients is worth quite a lot in my opinion.

[northernladuk]

I will send you an invoice plus VAT and handling charge

Make sure you do that after you have authorised my invoice for Business Consultancy given....

and who says contracting isn't a cut throat business lol

[diesel]

how about tell the client that you will be working during hte flight in preparation for the meeting and therefore will be billing..

also, it seems to me that they are taking the p!ss, my guess is that you wont be long for the door yourself and they are keeping you on to go on this trip, pay absolutely bare minimum for you/it and then get rid soon after.. be warned. If it was me i'd say what they are asking is not acceptable:

-non paid travel
-25hr cattle class with meeting and no rest in between

that will almost guarantee you not to be fit when you return

if it's that important fo ryou to be there then they'd want you in a fit state to do something other than simply be a shell of a body there (which is what you'd be) and so they need to either allow some rest time before/afterwards or upgrade the flight to business to allow more comfortable travel or you're very sorry you can't go..

Chef- dont think i can work during the flight but good idea. Project has limited budget for hours left and already overun (typical client commercial managers always underbid projects!).

Yeah agree no idea how long i will be on this gig.....and no others around

I will be travelling to arrive night before meeting starts. But after the 2-3 day meeting they want me back on the flight home. I will be travelling with a client permie member, but typical permies dont object.

Manic - i did not refuse the travel , i just objected to being not being able to
charge all travel time.

I am hoping i can charge expenses via invoice PLUS VAT! And pocket a few pennies via flat rate scheme. But as i said client usually prefers contractors to be paid expenses direct. Something i am not happy on a IR35 perspective.

But sure as hell on next contract update i will make sure agent includes a line to state "all project time is chargeable, unless agreed beforehand by client".

[diesel]

Oh and most importantly diesel... When in the duty free..

FaQQer likes the Cohiba Esplendidos Cigars and I will have anything that has been rolled on the sweaty inner thigh of a large Cuban lady. Am not fussy but anything under 5 off would be highly offensive to us both!!

Hope it goes ok.......

I will send you an invoice plus VAT and handling charge

[Manic]

Have to agree with chef, sounds like the fact a refusal to travel was discussed has already blotted your copybook.

Remember also that VAT should be charged on the expenses.

[chef]

how about tell the client that you will be working during hte flight in preparation for the meeting and therefore will be billing..

also, it seems to me that they are taking the p!ss, my guess is that you wont be long for the door yourself and they are keeping you on to go on this trip, pay absolutely bare minimum for you/it and then get rid soon after.. be warned. If it was me i'd say what they are asking is not acceptable:

-non paid travel
-25hr cattle class with meeting and no rest in between

that will almost guarantee you not to be fit when you return

if it's that important fo ryou to be there then they'd want you in a fit state to do something other than simply be a shell of a body there (which is what you'd be) and so they need to either allow some rest time before/afterwards or upgrade the flight to business to allow more comfortable travel or you're very sorry you can't go..

[northernladuk]

Oh and most importantly diesel... When in the duty free..

FaQQer likes the Cohiba Esplendidos Cigars and I will have anything that has been rolled on the sweaty inner thigh of a large Cuban lady. Am not fussy but anything under 5 off would be highly offensive to us both!!

Hope it goes ok.......

[Pondlife]

My $0.02

If I travel part of a day, I invoice for that day. I've never managed to get anyone to cough up for the number of hours in transit.

I would not be going straight to the office after a 25 hour trip - There's no point, you're fit for nothing.

Do not drive home from the airport after 25hrs in cattle class!


Depending on how long the trip is I would question the value of travelling that distance. I'm guessing they have phones where you're going.

I would raise the visa issue with your client. Now, I know you can wing it when you get to immigration but when the US/OZ/NZ official puts you in a little room for 5hrs until the next available return flight, it wil be YOU with the mark against your passport marked 'refused entry' and therefore no more holidays in that particular country.

[TheFaQQer]

Insurance - actually client has a business travel cover for all company travel which will cover contractors. I got this checked out. But even then a decent travel policy costs just around £35.
(i dont have any other company insurance active - cant afford this as only working for this gig pt!).

The fact that you don't have it is irrelevant (unless they know that you don't have insurance) What you tell them doesn't have to be 100% correct - get a quote for insurance for the year that would cover you overseas, and hit them with that. If they pay up, then you get a years company insurance out of the gig

I can see what the company is doing with the "we won't look favourably on you at renewal time" line. Personally, I don't take to being blackmailed by my clients, and I would say the same, before not doing the travel. It's tempting to tell the client "the fact that you just tried to blackmail me won't be looked on favourably, either" but that may not help the situation.

If you need the work, looks like you're going to have to suck it up and do it. I'd be looking to jump anyway - with luck you might be able to find something before you have to travel (and completely screw the company as they will have booked you on the cheapest scratty flight with no changes or cancellation allowed)

[diesel]

Thanks guys for the replies

I have been with this client for a few years now, and never travelled with them before. SO this is first expense claim i will be submitting if i go on the trip.
Contract specifies nothing about travel, just "all project time for client is paid at hourly rate £xx."

Travel - client will book flights and hotels. I just pay hotel and incidentals during trip. They will even give me an advance to help expenses (which is usual for all staff and contractors on overseas visits).

As i said i was suprised when i was fed info via my supervisor when he spoke to management on my behalf that if i dont go it will not be looked at favourly for my position.

I invoice weekly to agency along with timesheet. Agency said they have contract staff who claim expenses both via staff and invoice system. I dont think my expenses will be that great for a few days trip, but prefer to keep it all thro company. But seems like i have little choice if client procedure states contractors have to use staff system. But I will raise the NI question. What else could client become liable for paying expenses thro this system to me?

Insurance - actually client has a business travel cover for all company travel which will cover contractors. I got this checked out. But even then a decent travel policy costs just around £35.
(i dont have any other company insurance active - cant afford this as only working for this gig pt!).

Northernlad - thanks for tip. Seems like i need to bite the tongue on this one but will see when they get a date planned and what schedule is like too.

[Wanderer]

plus more salt onto wound, as soon as my overseas meeting has finished i am expected to jump straight onto a plane back home.

Ahhh, that sucks. You should at least get a few days off in whatever country it is (I presume it's somewhere quite nice at this time of year).

Also they want me to use claim expenses thro the staff system, i.e. get paid expenses to my personal bank account rather than thro invoice via Ltd co. Can they demand this? (client expenses procedure actually states contractors to use same system as staff). IS there any impact on myself i need to be aware off in this instance?

In the past I've had clients who let me just bill for some extra hours (that I didn't work) in lieu of claiming expenses from the client. That way you don't have to go through all the permie tulip of getting expenses approved/disapproved/quibbled over.

The client book the flights/hotels/transfers (and anything else they can) directly and you can make a business decision as to how much of your extra charge you are going to blow on incidentals and how much you retain as profit for the company. Good for your IR35 status too.

[TheFaQQer]

a bit peeved off
client told me i will only get 1/2 of travel time time paid, thats only 24hrs out of a 48hr trip paid for.

plus more salt onto wound, as soon as my overseas meeting has finished i am expected to jump straight onto a plane back home. If i dont accept this, been told it will not look good on my position.
(okay i know company is going thro a very bad time but peeved off they treating like this, basically black mail).

Also they want me to use claim expenses thro the staff system, i.e. get paid expenses to my personal bank account rather than thro invoice via Ltd co. Can they demand this? (client expenses procedure actually states contractors to use same system as staff). IS there any impact on myself i need to be aware off in this instance?

If nothing was mentioned in the contract or before you signed it, then you have a right to be annoyed. If the client mentioned overseas travel, and you did nothing about it, then there's a lesson to be learned there.

Travel. If you don't want to do it, and it's not in your role description or contract, then don't do it. You may need to discuss this subtly, but you work for yourself so need to act like it. One possible way out of this is to tell them that you have discussed the possibility with your insurance company, and they are asking for an additional premium to cover you for work overseas. Find out how much travel insurance will cost, and add that to your figure (or just pluck a number out of the air). If the client is expecting you to do it, make sure they are going to pay for the extra insurance - if they aren't then politely explain that you would need them to indemnify you and your company against any claim arising from the work undertaken overseas. Once you start mentioning that you wouldn't be insured, some clients get scared and realise that it's more trouble than it's worth.

Expenses. How do you invoice? You need to explain to the client that they are in a business to business arrangement with them and so you need to invoice for the expenses as part of that contract. If necessary, tell them that if you start being treated as an employee, there is a chance that they might be liable for NI contributions. They won't be any the wiser, but it might give a bit of leverage. Explain to them that because the expenses are going to be paid by your company, then the company is what needs to be reimbursed, not you personally.

Best of luck - I wouldn't relish being in your position.

[northernladuk]

Wish i could tell them....but they making loads redundant and loads of contractors have been let go. lucky to be there even on part time basis. suppose only option is to do the travel at their terms or lump it.

But i not so keen on getting expenses direct to personal account, as that would treat me same as permie. I would see that as a factor to jepordise my IR35 status if HMRC found out.

Have you claimed expenses before and how did you do it? Have you managed to invoice in the past? I don't think one situation like this is you have invoiced in the past will really make a difference to be honest. IR35 will look at all aspects and if the client says thats how we do it and our system won't work any other way then your complying with a process not being forced. Bit like having a company laptop, that coule be construde as bad cause you are being forced to use your kit but you can't use your own because of virii etc...
It may not work as badly against you as you think.....

If this is the one and only time you have had to claim expenses and it is the only way they will allow then thats not so good.

There is of course the situation that you are plainly inside IR35 and have to take it on the chin.

I have done over and above for a client that was in dire straits before and sometimes you have to suck it up and get on with it. It won't kill you and in time you will look back and laugh. Least you have a gig. Can't be pushed over all the time but sometimes it is has gotta be done. Get your head in to looking forward to the trip, something different, out of the ordinary, new place and try and enjoy it. If you are unhappy all 24 hours each way it will be a loooooooooong flight.

HTH a bit