Reply to: How much better off are we?

[Fred Bloggs]

Exactly what shoes said. When I went back to an ex employer after a 14 year gap, I was asked to do work (and was respected for doing it) that the company specifically ruled me out of when I was a permie there. My rate was about 2.5 times what the grade was paying had I still been permie there, plus I had the freedom to come and go as I liked and never had to work loads of the unpaid overtime that was "expected" of an employee.

[shoes]

For me there's a large difference, I am one of those in a technical role who if perm would be on around the 35k mark. In my market I can get 350 to 400 a day. In a perm role I would be living basically hand to mouth each month. In a contract every month I invoice for makes me over twice the take home of the permie 35k one. To me that means for every month working I can take a month off and still not be worse off than I was as a permie.

I have none of the permie bull that other people have mentioned here and I take months off between contracts. I am also respected by those in the 'higher' positions at my client sites versus being looked on as a skivvy to talk down to if I were doing a similar role as a permie.

No comparison. I'll be living rough on the streets before I consider a permie role again. I feel really sorry for the poor permie saps in technical roles I meet at my client sites, they are all so unhappy. Not for me.

[expat]

that's weird. judging from what i read on this board, i assumed that the UK must be the most highly taxed country in all of europe. don't tell me this isn't the case?

Don't believe everything you read on this board

Switzerland for a start.

Actually Netherlands too, when you factor in the 30% rule: that means that the Dutch taxman lets you have 30% of your income tax-free (but then nothing is deductible). It doesn't mean that the UK taxman will do the same.

[TheBigYinJames]

permatazoa

[Fred Bloggs]

(snipped) I am not saying that you are not better off, all I am saying is that people should look at their personal circumstances and not try and jump on the bandwagon, especially now that it's showing signs of slowdown. Likely to see a lot of desperate contractors pleading for an ever diminishing pool of pertmie jobs.

That's true. I have been in my industry for 35 years now. I am not going to be offered a senior staff role. 2 yars ago I went back to an ex employer (left them 15 years ago) as a contractor. I met a guy who I used to work with. We were on the same salary grade 15 years ago. I was shocked to find he was STILL on the same salary grade. His salary was £31k a year. He had been in that company over 30 years. There but for the grace of god go I, I thought to myself. I'm a lucky bloke, but I've made my own luck and I've taken risks. I could take a year with zero work and maintain my lifestyle but before it got to that I would have to take a low paid permatazoa type role just to keep in work on my CV. Nobody likes anyone with a several month gap on the CV.

Luckily, I think I have another 11 months ahead on this job.

[DaveB]

that's weird. judging from what i read on this board, i assumed that the UK must be the most highly taxed country in all of europe. don't tell me this isn't the case?

In terms of pure income taxes we are actually one of the lowest in Europe. Whether this holds true when you add in other taxes I'm not so sure.

Edit : This makes interesting reading if taxes are your thing.

World bank report on taxation globally

Uk Ranks 52nd out of 178 countries ( 1 being lowest overall tax burden, 178 being the highest). Our total tax burden is 37.5% by their calculations.

[lambrini_socialist]

and the pleasure of paying taxes at UK rates or higher, wherever I work)

that's weird. judging from what i read on this board, i assumed that the UK must be the most highly taxed country in all of europe. don't tell me this isn't the case?

[TheBigYinJames]

Not me Jim, I turn 58 next summer and am beginning to hope that I will never have to work permie again.

Well part of me dreads the idea of 'settling' for a perm role. I think because our industry is quite young and there aren't a great many older 50s+ contractors around, you get the idea that you can't do it when you're old. I hope that's not true.

[expat]

I always think this will be a an age-related decision for me - at some point I will just get fed up contracting. but it hasn't happened yet, but then I turn 40 next summer, so maybe I'll start thinking more about it.

Not me Jim, I turn 58 next summer and am beginning to hope that I will never have to work permie again.

[TheBigYinJames]

If you've done all that and one day you are offered say anything between £ 50-60k plus to work locally then as I previously explained, you may no longer then be better off carrying on contracting.

I always think this will be a an age-related decision for me - at some point I will just get fed up contracting. but it hasn't happened yet, but then I turn 40 next summer, so maybe I'll start thinking more about it.

[expat]

My problem is that I can't seem to find contracts in the UK, so I'm off to Holland, Germany, or Switzerland every week. Family home remains UK, not about to change, it's just a given. So I have substantial commuting costs in time and money (and the pleasure of paying taxes at UK rates or higher, wherever I work).

I just worked out my net hourly rate after taxes and costs, including commute times. Ouch!

[Dow Jones]

Never say Never

From what I've seen so far the most enthusiastic ones are those from previously so-called 'junior' permie roles earning around £ 30k or less. I can see the obvious financial benefits to them as well as the new 'glamorous' lifestyle (flashy cars/clothes/etc). If you've done all that and one day you are offered say anything between £ 50-60k plus to work locally then as I previously explained, you may no longer then be better off carrying on contracting. Again for the new entrants, when you calculate your earnings, you work out over 45 weeks p/a x anything between 70-80% over the years (allowing for the rest 20-30% is bench time, enforced or not). I am not saying that you are not better off, all I am saying is that people should look at their personal circumstances and not try and jump on the bandwagon, especially now that it's showing signs of slowdown. Likely to see a lot of desperate contractors pleading for an ever diminishing pool of pertmie jobs.

[Fred Bloggs]

In my line of work permie rates are effectively capped at about ~£48k a year. If I was still in my last permie job (5 years ago) my salary would be about £38k a year. My day rate is £400 and I work (I hope!) 44 weeks a year. I put a grand a month into a SIPP and I reckon I am still about a grand ahead of what I would be taking home now from my last permie job. The actual work I do if fairly similar, just a lot more short term jobs. I like what I do and I would hate to return to permi-dom. That's worth a few bob to me too

[bobhope]

Exactly, not doing performance reviews every 6 months or so is worth a couple of grand to me.

[expat]

Not really looking for a self-esteem approval- we get that from contract extensions anyway

Hear! Hear!

This is one place where I agree with Ayn Rand: paying you money is the one sure sign that they value you.