Reply to: First wage slip

[ASB]

I've been a contractor for a number of years - first through my LTD in the 90's and then through an MSC until February 2007 (when the new MSC regs were sprung).

I don't know if I missed it last April/May due to all the change on change on change but in the last few weeks I'd been asking myself exactly the same question as oafc0000 - why am I paying no NIC's when I was in March?

I thought oafc0000's question had all the facts needed (though he mentioned being caught by IR35 which turned out to have no bearing on this - I'm out of IR35 by the way).

Neil's answer was clear, direct and releavant - thanks very much! I now know my take home will drop in a month or two.

By the way - the reason I even checked the take home on my pay slip was to see how much the 10% tax band going had impacted me compared to March's pay slip.

One minor point which may be of interest.

Neil mentioned doing NI for directors on a cumulative basis - and this is the normal way. This is intended to prevent an avoidance strategy used years ago.

However, you can (or at least could) choose to pay NI even as a director on an apportionment basis. The effect of this is that you pay in a "smoother manner". Overall you will pay the same over the year, it's just a question of when.

This gives the details - skim the first few pages.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nitables/ca44.pdf

Your accountants should be prepared to calculate on either basis - but I guess it will depend on what systems they have in place which method they prefer.

[handyandy]

I've been a contractor for a number of years - first through my LTD in the 90's and then through an MSC until February 2007 (when the new MSC regs were sprung).

I don't know if I missed it last April/May due to all the change on change on change but in the last few weeks I'd been asking myself exactly the same question as oafc0000 - why am I paying no NIC's when I was in March?

I thought oafc0000's question had all the facts needed (though he mentioned being caught by IR35 which turned out to have no bearing on this - I'm out of IR35 by the way).

Neil's answer was clear, direct and releavant - thanks very much! I now know my take home will drop in a month or two.

By the way - the reason I even checked the take home on my pay slip was to see how much the 10% tax band going had impacted me compared to March's pay slip.

[dx4100]

He hasn't flounced off in a huff. He asked a sensible question, got a sensible answer from one poster and a sarcastic answer from someone who couldn't be bothered to read the original question properly so he came back and gave you a bit of your own medicine, which was perfectly justified.

I don't understand why, when you read a question that you can't be bothered to answer because it's "below you", you don't just ignore it. There are plenty of us who are prepared to give answers to simple questions.

It defies belief that you spend half your life having a pop at people for allegedly making stupid posts on internet fora when you spend the other half posting stupid/incorrect replies yourself.

You regularly have a pop at people for not reading the first-timer guides properly but this week you spent two days and 11 posts, reiterating the same incorrect point as fact 6 times, arguing about a simple point which you could have clarified by reading your beloved PCG guidance, your own tax return, P11D or PAYE coding notice.

Your erroneous posts are far more dangerous than someone posting a simple question because, for some reason which is a mystery to me, people seem to trust what you post. You therefore have a duty of care not to just post stuff as fact without checking it first.

I have a simple rule. If I know the answer, I might choose to post a response. If I don't know the answer, I either don't post a response or I go and research the answer.

What he said....

[dx4100]

Like I said, you have no f***ing idea. For one thing, what do you think the PCG is? An insurance company?> A helpline for people who can't be bothered to research their own business?

For another, you may be an expert in your field, some of us are quite expert in ours. Doesn't mean you know anything about contracting in an increasingly difficult world: in fact right now you're demonstrating quite the opposite.

Grow a thicker skin and read what's being said. It might be a bit hard to take, but there is a lot of good advice in there. Flouncing off in a huff because you've bumped into reality acheives very little

This post actually needs printing out and framing....

You just completely ignored...again...what I posted and came back with your own nasty little dribble....

Your just here to make people feel bad about themselves aren’t you. Your such a fantastic contractor and you know soooo much (or not according to the post above ). Well jolly hockey sticks for you. Fact is in the last two months I have gone from permanent employment to limited business owner, increased my salary greatly and have managed not to mess anything up. I’m quite happy where I am at thanks. Going to tackle the mucky world of IR35 with my next contract.

Just wondering, you bullied at school ? Your nasty personality must of come from somewhere....I usually find people like you aren’t so cocky when met in the real world....keyboard warrior.....tut tut...

Anyway, im off to start the day....friends over for a bbq today....lots to do....did you hear that "friends"....a distant dream for you probably

[THEPUMA]

Like I said, you have no f***ing idea. For one thing, what do you think the PCG is? An insurance company?> A helpline for people who can't be bothered to research their own business?

For another, you may be an expert in your field, some of us are quite expert in ours. Doesn't mean you know anything about contracting in an increasingly difficult world: in fact right now you're demonstrating quite the opposite.

Grow a thicker skin and read what's being said. It might be a bit hard to take, but there is a lot of good advice in there. Flouncing off in a huff because you've bumped into reality acheives very little

He hasn't flounced off in a huff. He asked a sensible question, got a sensible answer from one poster and a sarcastic answer from someone who couldn't be bothered to read the original question properly so he came back and gave you a bit of your own medicine, which was perfectly justified.

I don't understand why, when you read a question that you can't be bothered to answer because it's "below you", you don't just ignore it. There are plenty of us who are prepared to give answers to simple questions.

It defies belief that you spend half your life having a pop at people for allegedly making stupid posts on internet fora when you spend the other half posting stupid/incorrect replies yourself.

You regularly have a pop at people for not reading the first-timer guides properly but this week you spent two days and 11 posts, reiterating the same incorrect point as fact 6 times, arguing about a simple point which you could have clarified by reading your beloved PCG guidance, your own tax return, P11D or PAYE coding notice.

Your erroneous posts are far more dangerous than someone posting a simple question because, for some reason which is a mystery to me, people seem to trust what you post. You therefore have a duty of care not to just post stuff as fact without checking it first.

I have a simple rule. If I know the answer, I might choose to post a response. If I don't know the answer, I either don't post a response or I go and research the answer.

[malvolio]

Like I said, you have no f***ing idea. For one thing, what do you think the PCG is? An insurance company?> A helpline for people who can't be bothered to research their own business?

For another, you may be an expert in your field, some of us are quite expert in ours. Doesn't mean you know anything about contracting in an increasingly difficult world: in fact right now you're demonstrating quite the opposite.

Grow a thicker skin and read what's being said. It might be a bit hard to take, but there is a lot of good advice in there. Flouncing off in a huff because you've bumped into reality acheives very little

[dx4100]

Sometimes he's hungover and misses a few facts, but normally ok. But for goodness sake, if you can't formulate a question clearly, then don't be surprised when you get a slight flaming.

Somewhere there's a guide on the net about asking questions in online forums. Go find it, read it and apply it.

Well my original question made enough sense to attract the right answer....just the typical four or five regular arseholes on here who enjoy giving people carp....bit sad really....haven’t you people got better things to do ?

I’m a member of a number of forums where I am actually a leading expert rather than a newbie like here and I really enjoy helping people even if it is a bit annoying answering the same old questions…I wouldn’t go on those forums if it annoyed me….

Seriously, allot of the consistent carp throwers have 2,000+ posts and I do wonder just how many of those posts have been carp throwing vs. actually helping people....

Just seems to me that a forum is the wrong place to hang out if you’re not happy to help people....

Finally, you really want to know why so many people are using umbrellas and paying IR35....you lot! There is no joined up fighting against it, if you dare to ask for help you get grief....your all your own worst enemies....but you can’t see it because your all just far too cocky....

Anyway, got the answer I wanted, so thanks to the one person who helped out...cheers...

[NickFitz]

...there's a guide on the net about asking questions in online forums.

Fixed that for you

[NotAllThere]

Except when its mal. He rarely (if ever) doesn't know what he's talking about. IMO

Sometimes he's hungover and misses a few facts, but normally ok. But for goodness sake, if you can't formulate a question clearly, then don't be surprised when you get a slight flaming.

Somewhere there's a guide on the net about asking questions in online forums. Go find it, read it and apply it.

[malvolio]

Its more money when you didn't realise there was any allowance on NI and you had budgeted to that effect lol

Also, in replies to mals question about why people still allow themselves to get ir35 caught, when I sought advice on here people like you was unhelpful and the first timer guides are very open ended so I went down the safe route for my first contract.

Well that's exactly what we need to know. We wrote the PCG First Timer guide as experienced and knowledgable contractors (despite Puma's opinion ) and we were supported by experts in the subject like Accountax and Lawspeed. If they still leave people like you in doubt and driven to IR35-payment out of fear of the consequences, then clearly they need a rethink (and clearly you have also proved Gay Gordon's policy of taxation by fear and stealth to be right, haven't you...).

Net result is you still don't fully understand IR35 and are paying around 20% more tax than is probably necessary. Get your next contract reviewed professionally and work from the assumption you are outside; it's up to others to prove you are in. RoS, D&C and MOO are all well understood

Meanwhile I'll try and get the PCG's FTG reassessed and perhaps rewritten, maybe with a simple executive summary at the top.

Finally, we're not unhelpful, but we do get tired of answering the same old questions time after time after time. I got bored enough to look up your past threads. You asked a good question about a work from home contract and got solid and direct answers. Your first post about contracting got Dennyed, which is a shame for anyone, and other people were a bit short with you, but with good reason. You will note I immediately pointed you at the same advice I just repeated on this thread and furthermore, if you consider http://forums.contractoruk.com/456735-post20.html to be unhelpful then I'm sorry but you weren't really listening to what you were being told.

[dx4100]

It's not more money. You'll make up for it by paying more later in the year.

I was confused by exactly the same thing when I started, and I'm sure we're not the only ones (maybe even Mal was - no what am i saying).

Its more money when you didn't realise there was any allowance on NI and you had budgeted to that effect lol

Also, in replies to mals question about why people still allow themselves to get ir35 caught, when I sought advice on here people like you was unhelpful and the first timer guides are very open ended so I went down the safe route for my first contract.

[VectraMan]

Great news when you miss something and it actually lands more money in your lap

It's not more money. You'll make up for it by paying more later in the year.

I was confused by exactly the same thing when I started, and I'm sure we're not the only ones (maybe even Mal was - no what am i saying).

[dx4100]

Not half as funny as trying to interpret questions with half the facts missing...

Out of interest, and as a bit of genuine research, why is your contact IR35-caught? The reason for asking is that with 99.65% of contracts challenged being found outside, it would be useful to understand why people continue to pay it so we can challenge its whole basis. There is a suspicion that it survives as a tax because too many people are paying up whether they are caught or not.

To be fair to last out every fact regarding a contract would take quite a while and end in a eassy.....and I did say just ask if you need any more information.....instead I get that arsey response and no attempt to seek further information.....didnt think it was justified.....I thought I had provided enough details and the fact I got the answer back seems to suggest this as well....

Your second question, basically, im scared of being investigated and taken to the cleaners....

I am very much a disguised employee....i go to team meetings, im part and parcel of the company in alot of ways....

Im hoping my future contracts to be outside IR35 but im very much trying to walk before I can run....edging on the side of caution.....

Im still earning alot more out of contracting than normal employment...

[Sockpuppet]

....its funny when people have a pop and then come out looking silly....

Except when its mal. He rarely (if ever) doesn't know what he's talking about. IMO

[malvolio]

....its funny when people have a pop and then come out looking silly....

Not half as funny as trying to interpret questions with half the facts missing...

Out of interest, and as a bit of genuine research, why is your contact IR35-caught? The reason for asking is that with 99.65% of contracts challenged being found outside, it would be useful to understand why people continue to pay it so we can challenge its whole basis. There is a suspicion that it survives as a tax because too many people are paying up whether they are caught or not.