Reply to: (Tax Avoidance != Tax Evasion)

[thunderlizard]

"Tax avoidance" is an annoying term because it isn't legally defined. If you put money into an ISA or pension (like the government recommends) because the growth is tax-free, that's tax avoidance. If you buy less fags, booze or petrol than you used to because of the increasing duty on them, that's tax avoidance too. Hardly the ethical crime of the century.

[lambrini_socialist]

BTW - the use of != for not equal isn't ANSI/ISO standard is it? Shouldn't it be <> ?

java / c# / ruby, innit?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

BTW - the use of != for not equal isn't ANSI/ISO standard is it? Shouldn't it be <> ?

[xoggoth]

Have a look at this blog which has dealt with this issue on various occasions

www.hmrconline.com

[malvolio]

Is that Fapital Banes Tax?

Family Business Tax - do keep up at the back.

[beercohol]

My MP tried the Tax Avoiding line on me when we were dicsussing FBT. I pointed out the total tax bill for me and MyCo for the previous full year was a shade over £48k*, rather more than the average working man contributes to his MP's expense account, and if I'm doing tax avoidance then I'm really not very good at it.


* I didn't mention I had two concurrent contracts for a big chunk of it though...)

Is that Fapital Banes Tax?

...good point though. And it is a good response in the pointless-and-shouldn't-get-sucked-into-it-in-the-first-place tax debate with permies, to respond with dismissive "I pay more tax than you, so let's not go there."

[DonkeyRhubarb]

The government says they are opposed to artificial measures, hence the attacks on offshore trust/loan schemes.

However, you could argue that the following scenario is completely artificial:

Married couple. Partner A is a 40% tax payer. Partner B doesn't work. The couple transfer all savings into Partner B's name, thus minimising tax by utilising B's personal allowance & 10% band, and avoiding A having to pay additional 40% tax.

Were the couple to divorce, then all assets would be taken into account, including the savings in B's name. Therefore, it could be argued that A has a claim on the savings. Furthermore, since B isn't working, then the savings must presumably have come from A's salary ie. in effect the money really belongs to A.

However, closing this "loophole" would be rejected on point (b) below.

Government Definition: a tax avoidance arrangement is deemed to be artificial if closing it would (a) bring in loads of money and (b) not cost too many votes!

[malvolio]

My MP tried the Tax Avoiding line on me when we were dicsussing FBT. I pointed out the total tax bill for me and MyCo for the previous full year was a shade over £48k*, rather more than the average working man contributes to his MP's expense account, and if I'm doing tax avoidance then I'm really not very good at it.


* I didn't mention I had two concurrent contracts for a big chunk of it though...)

[beercohol]

I think you're all a bunch of tax avoiders - avoiding tax by not earning as much as I do for my company. By not generating higher earnings, and therefore a higher tax bill, you are depriving the exchequer of much needed funds.

I want you on my team immediately!

[NotAllThere]

I think you're all a bunch of tax avoiders - avoiding tax by not earning as much as I do for my company. By not generating higher earnings, and therefore a higher tax bill, you are depriving the exchequer of much needed funds.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Interesting that this should come up now - I wonder if there's a renewed interest in it because the government appears to be being advised by people like this wonk who tell them stuff they want to hear. He apparently makes no distinction.

[malvolio]

If people have an issue with Tax Avoidance, ask them if they use their personal allowance when calculating their annual tax bill... Avoidance is doing anything to reduce your tax bill that is not explicitly banned by law.

[beercohol]

famously impregnable and authentic

Aha, Wikipedia (famously impregnable and authentic):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion

"Public Opinion on Tax Avoidance

Tax avoidance may be considered to be the dodging of one's duties to society, or alternatively the right of every citizen to structure one's affairs in a manner allowed by law, to pay no more tax than what is required. Attitudes vary from approval through neutrality to outright hostility. Attitudes may vary depending on the steps taken in the avoidance scheme, or the perceived unfairness of the tax being avoided.

In the judiciary, different judges have taken different attitudes. As a generalization, for example, judges in the United Kingdom before the 1970s regarded tax avoidance with neutrality; but nowadays they regard it with increasing hostility."

[Likely]

Yes, of course. Haven't you?

Just a few months. But it has been with one of those loan thingies. I think I am jumping off next contract. It is smelly.

[beercohol]

Have you been avoiding a lot ?

Yes, of course. Haven't you?