Reply to: IS this Legal?

[Ardesco]

Okay you lot are set against umbrellas and think the only way is limited. 2 questions then, paying a low salary and the rest in dividends, some of you are saying this is okay and legal and the rest are saying this is tax avoidance what is the score....I thought this is legal ir cant do anything can they?

Upton Accountants look value for money and offer a good service anyone used them before or can u suggest a good accountancy service that is outside the msc legislation

Tax Avoidance is legal, it is tax evasion that is not

HTH

(Not that I think it has helped as i'm sure you still won't get it after looking at your previous responses)

[Old Greg]

Okay you lot are set against umbrellas and think the only way is limited. 2 questions then, paying a low salary and the rest in dividends, some of you are saying this is okay and legal and the rest are saying this is tax avoidance what is the score....I thought this is legal ir cant do anything can they?

Upton Accountants look value for money and offer a good service anyone used them before or can u suggest a good accountancy service that is outside the msc legislation

Perhaps it is okay, legal AND tax avoidance.

[Gonzo]

Okay you lot are set against umbrellas and think the only way is limited. 2 questions then, paying a low salary and the rest in dividends, some of you are saying this is okay and legal and the rest are saying this is tax avoidance what is the score....I thought this is legal ir cant do anything can they?

The whole IR35 thing has passed you by hasn't it?

What line of work are you in?

[cartlidgea]

Okay you lot are set against umbrellas and think the only way is limited. 2 questions then, paying a low salary and the rest in dividends, some of you are saying this is okay and legal and the rest are saying this is tax avoidance what is the score....I thought this is legal ir cant do anything can they?

Upton Accountants look value for money and offer a good service anyone used them before or can u suggest a good accountancy service that is outside the msc legislation

[Lewis]

they cant even go bust they have insurance in place

Been thinking .... I want some of this insurance action. Just think of the possibilities, borrow loads, pay yourself such a rediculous salary that the company has not money left for HMRC, go bust. Claim on insurance. Great!

Surely such a policy does not exist.

[TheRightStuff]

checked time (00:51 am). does that not emphasis my point.
However, you are right. LTD is the only way. It would be nice to simply send off an invoice/timesheet and have the rest done for you but I would prefer to spend a couple of hrs a month and have a ltd company. It's a no brainer.

Everyone = Although Malvolio can be short, a bit like whats inside his pants, listen to what he says. I like to wind him up now and then, although I'm sure it doesn't work, but he does talk sense.

what's wrong with me today?????

[TheRightStuff]

Check the time of that post, which might explain the grumpiness!

But my tolerance level of people claiming the miracle cure is wearing thin, I agree. The rules are clear, as are the economic realities, I don't need some shiny new know-nothing telling me I'm doing it wrong nor misleading the other know-nothings.

checked time (00:51 am). does that not emphasis my point.
However, you are right. LTD is the only way. It would be nice to simply send off an invoice/timesheet and have the rest done for you but I would prefer to spend a couple of hrs a month and have a ltd company. It's a no brainer.

Everyone = Although Malvolio can be short, a bit like whats inside his pants, listen to what he says. I like to wind him up now and then, although I'm sure it doesn't work, but he does talk sense.

[malvolio]

Check the time of that post, which might explain the grumpiness!

But my tolerance level of people claiming the miracle cure is wearing thin, I agree. The rules are clear, as are the economic realities, I don't need some shiny new know-nothing telling me I'm doing it wrong nor misleading the other know-nothings.

[TheRightStuff]

I think you should stop now. You have no grasp of the situation, and are relying on salesmen to advise you. Bad idea.

Since you are determined to pick a bad umbrella with frankly unrealistic claims, I suggest you cut your risks and get your own company and a decent accountant to help you out. The operating overhead is around 2 hours a month, hardly a major problem, you get to keep more money than any legal umbrella system will allow, and you can probably put yourself safely outside IR35, not that that's a major consideration these days.

Or if you choose to ignore that advice, and the other suggestions made in this thread, go do whatever the hell you want and stop asking us damn stupid questions. You want to be a contractor, make your own decisions and assess your own risks.

your really not getting any are you.

[ASB]

cartlidgea

I'm not sure I would base these decisions based on the salesmen. However you have repeatly said you don't want the hassle of doing things yourself (fair enough in my book). On that basis if you are happy with NLL then go for it, but....

They may have all the insurances in the world. They may even cover some things, but when it all goes to hell in a handcart tit is *you* that gets attacked by HMRC not *them*. Ultimately you are relying on somebody insuring against your risk on terms you don't know and expecting to be fully covered.

Also lets assume they do turn out to be an MSC provider, then there is a sucessful revenue challenge. Ok, the insurance might kick in for the first couple, but will they be able to afford the premiums when HMRC go after each individual client (should that happen). Just maybe the insurance won't turn out to be a panecea against all ills.

I'm not saying don't use them or similar. Just be sure to understand what you're getting and what the insurance is really worth.

[Lewis]

You want to be a contractor, make your own decisions and assess your own risks.

[cojak]

I'd like to repeat the last two comments by Mal:

You want to be a contractor, make your own decisions and assess your own risks.

and

You want to be a contractor, make your own decisions and assess your own risks.

Now strictly speaking this is only one comment, but I felt it so important that I needed to mention it twice....

The way it works is that you collate relevant information and advice, analyse it and come to your own plan of action.

[malvolio]

I think you should stop now. You have no grasp of the situation, and are relying on salesmen to advise you. Bad idea.

Since you are determined to pick a bad umbrella with frankly unrealistic claims, I suggest you cut your risks and get your own company and a decent accountant to help you out. The operating overhead is around 2 hours a month, hardly a major problem, you get to keep more money than any legal umbrella system will allow, and you can probably put yourself safely outside IR35, not that that's a major consideration these days.

Or if you choose to ignore that advice, and the other suggestions made in this thread, go do whatever the hell you want and stop asking us damn stupid questions. You want to be a contractor, make your own decisions and assess your own risks.

[cartlidgea]

Thanks one and all for your responses. After all these posts I still dont seem to have a definitive answer to either of my initial questions.

The one response about No Longer Limited was very positive saying he had been very happy with them so in that way it looks good. I contacted them today to ask some questions. I was worried that as they treated me as being outside IR35 that I may have to do all the usual limited company paperwork but they said no they handle it all. Secondly I was concerned that by treating me as outside IR35 and offering tax repayment insurance they may be classed as an msc provider. They were not totally sure on this but said even if I was dragged down by this their insurance policy would cover me and pay out. I have seen their insurance documents and they do cover everything. They are also willing to send me an official letter from themselves and their insurance underwriter to state that they will pay for representation/tax/ni if I am caught inside IR35/they make any tax/ni mistakes and also if they end up being classed as an msc provider and myself an msc.

So cant seem to lose, they cant even go bust they have insurance in place for that as well. Someone mentioned fraud where is the fraud if a professional company is offering you this service and you pay for it how can you be classed as fraudulant wouldnt they have been shut down by now they have been trading for years!! I am worried about how they manage to not have to pay the extra ni which gives me a 10% better return then umbrella...any comments? So the only way I lose is tax man says I have paid wrong Tax/NI, I am msc or I am inside IR35 which is all covered by their insurance????

My problem is that my contract is six months long and although by going limited I make a good percentage more then umbrella because I have to pay a full years accountancy fees £1300 I end up not making much at all whereas this way for a short contract I take home about 10% more then umbrella and only 5% less then limited without the paperwork hassel. Maybe I need a cheaper accountant but dont want to use a big name in case I get caught by the msc legislation, are upton any good?

[Dundeegeorge]

Wtf

taking a dividend on earnings to avoid tax and NI, is treated as tax avoidance.

Which is entirely legal, it's tax-evasion that is illegal.
Still and all, it's very nice of you to set yourself up for the gov to plunder, stops them wasting our time by attacking more limited companies.
Cheers.