Flat rate expenses

[Lance]

True, yes. I sometimes wonder if clients say 'flat rate' but mean 'cap' and you only find out when you claim the flat rate without receipts.

indeed. And good luck trying to argue with the client that they are better off paying against your invoice, getting all the VAT back; rather than having the argument with finance about a bunch of train receipts without VAT that they still have to pay VAT on

[ladymuck]

but that wouldn't be a flat rate. It would be a cap.

True, yes. I sometimes wonder if clients say 'flat rate' but mean 'cap' and you only find out when you claim the flat rate without receipts.

[Lance]

As long as they don't have to provide evidence of expenditure.

but that wouldn't be a flat rate. It would be a cap.

[ladymuck]

on the plus side, you can claim the full rate, spend less, and make a profit.

As long as they don't have to provide evidence of expenditure.

[malvolio]

slumming it in the premier inns it’s is

Hmmm... IME they have excellent beds and excellent breakfasts. That's all you really need in a hotel. It's not like you get brownie points for paying for stuff that is totally irrelevant. Especially in the smoke.

In terms of VfM, I had to book into the Great Eastern in Liverpool St once at very short notice. £180 for a room where the single bed was half the width of the room and I could barely fit in the shower, then they wanted £38 for breakfast... Give me a tulipty Premier Inn any day.

[Lance]

on the plus side, you can claim the full rate, spend less, and make a profit.

[Rik1087]

Would love to see what's been billed so far without the cap.

to be fair, the hotels have been booked through the clients travel portal. On average they have been working out around £250/300 per night.
mots good to hear this is the new norm.
slumming it in the premier inns it’s is

[wattaj]

FFS - I can book a Premier Inn at Tower bridge, to stop tonight for one night, for <£140. What more do you want? The Ritz?

Would love to see what's been billed so far without the cap.

[northernladuk]

Seems the new norm. The last three clients I've had have expenses included in the rate but to be fair non needed much travelling.

Are these expenses to attend their main site or other offices/locations? I've yet to find a client that allows expenses to attend their site with the hybrid way.

[Lance]

1. £200 extra day to cover hotel & evening meal
2. outside IR35
3. Struggling to find hotels in central London under £200 a night.

fair points regarding negotiations. It’s probably pointing more towards sucking it up at the moment.

I just didn’t know if this was common practice where the client could dictate what could or how much can be charged or not charged in this instance.

£200 is more than generous. No wonder they have capped you.
And if you prefer nicer accommodation, you can claim against your own company.

FFS - I can book a Premier Inn at Tower bridge, to stop tonight for one night, for <£140. What more do you want? The Ritz?

[Rik1087]

1. £200 extra day to cover hotel & evening meal
2. outside IR35
3. Struggling to find hotels in central London under £200 a night.

fair points regarding negotiations. It’s probably pointing more towards sucking it up at the moment.

I just didn’t know if this was common practice where the client could dictate what could or how much can be charged or not charged in this instance.

[Lance]

what is the rate they are offering?
Are you inside or outside IR35?
Can you arrive early on day 1, stay late on day 2, and not have to be onsite a 3rd day?
Can you find cheaper digs (there are usually options)?


The thing is though, you have just two choices:
1) Suck it up
2) say you need more.

Just be prepared to walk away if they refuse to pay more. And actually do walk away. There's no point starring a negotiation you intend to lose.

[Rik1087]

Hi All,

after some advise, I have been contracting with the same client for a fair amount of time, and along with my day rate for monthly invoices I have been submitting an invoice for hotels and evening meals for overnight stays (the usual costs incurred for me supplying my services).

however, this latest renewal the client is introducing a flat rate of X amount on top of my usual day rate to incorporate any hotel / overnight charge.

I understand the need for greater financial control, but put simply the flat rate is so low that I will be out of pocket if I need to stay overnight (currently 2 nights a week).

has anyone had this before with a client? Did you negotiate a higher flat rate? Or did you simply state this is a business to business relationship and therefore the costs for my services are the costs of my services?