FreeAgent and accountancy costs

[northernladuk]

Wot u chattin bout? We get FreeAgent/QDOS to buy our drinks at these things ?

Ah that explains alot. I thought Seb was drinking like a fish the number of times he was at the bar. Didn't know he was running for you

[Maslins]

Wot u chattin bout? We get FreeAgent/QDOS to buy our drinks at these things ?

[northernladuk]

I think freeagent has a mobile app which allows you to do expenses as you go.

and I would seriously recommend using that or finding an app that does it as it makes things utterly painless - buy coffee, scan receipt job done…

Ahh is that why Maslins was taking pictures of his reciepts everytime he went to the bar at the ContractorUK awards?

EDIT : Actually I'm lying. I never saw him at the bar all night

[Maslins]

What your typical "small business accountant" typically does now bears little resemblance to what one would typically do 15-20 years ago.

Back in the day, the accountant would have none of your business data unless you went out of your way to provide it to them. Any time you did, it would clearly be because you wanted something from them, and they'd charge you accordingly.

If you were VAT registered, or had employees, you'd typically have a bookkeeper to help with that, or a junior member from your accountants coming out to you regularly, at significant extra cost.

Hence most small clients looking to keep costs down would just bother their accountant once a year for year end accounts/CT.


These days with FreeAgent et al, the data can be at the accountant's fingertips throughout the year. Got a quick question? Call/email your accountant, they can see your live data, and respond/tweak accordingly. Because accountants have realised it's quicker/easier to check/fix little things as they go, rather than unpick a big mess after year end, they've drifted towards fixed fee/pay monthly models and get involved regularly throughout the year.

So no, accountants aren't generally cheaper than they were before the likes of FreeAgent, but mainly because they're offering far more help than they used to. Yes, you're doing the donkey work of raising invoices etc (no accountant ever realistically did that!), but they're periodically checking it all looks ok, answering your queries if you're unsure what to do etc. Accountants didn't offer that service before, at least not as part of their basic accounts/CT production offering.

[eek]

I had a very busy month in August, with lots of expenses due to multiple business trips. So, I've had to input the expenses and then the reclaim on the invoice from the client line by line has taken ages. Then sorting out how the VAT is treated for different types of items... Hopefully next month won't take so long.
I'm fairly diligent with my book keeping and stay up to date. I've had to deal with a few accountants mistakes in the past, so I make sure I know what's going on. Yesterday was spent correcting a couple of entries the accountant had filled in on FreeAgent.
I'm quite prepared to keep on top of it, it's the data entry I could do without when I pay someone to do it. Anyway...

But that is the area where your accountant doing it could create problems with HMRC due to the Managed Service company legislation.

I think freeagent has a mobile app which allows you to do expenses as you go.

and I would seriously recommend using that or finding an app that does it as it makes things utterly painless - buy coffee, scan receipt job done…

[northernladuk]

I had a very busy month in August, with lots of expenses due to multiple business trips. So, I've had to input the expenses and then the reclaim on the invoice from the client line by line has taken ages. Then sorting out how the VAT is treated for different types of items... Hopefully next month won't take so long.
I'm fairly diligent with my book keeping and stay up to date. I've had to deal with a few accountants mistakes in the past, so I make sure I know what's going on. Yesterday was spent correcting a couple of entries the accountant had filled in on FreeAgent.
I'm quite prepared to keep on top of it, it's the data entry I could do without when I pay someone to do it. Anyway...

It really should be you doing as per Cojaks comment on being in business on your account. With the noise and unknowns around the MSC thing and accountants I wouldn't be comfortable with a service that did it for me.

EDIT : When I say you I don't necessarily mean you as a person. It can be someone else but it shouldn't be your accountant if you get me.

[velcro]

What exactly are you doing that takes you hours to complete? I don’t personally use Freeagent but I can’t think of why it would take so long to update the ledgers for Ltd co contractor.

I had a very busy month in August, with lots of expenses due to multiple business trips. So, I've had to input the expenses and then the reclaim on the invoice from the client line by line has taken ages. Then sorting out how the VAT is treated for different types of items... Hopefully next month won't take so long.
I'm fairly diligent with my book keeping and stay up to date. I've had to deal with a few accountants mistakes in the past, so I make sure I know what's going on. Yesterday was spent correcting a couple of entries the accountant had filled in on FreeAgent.
I'm quite prepared to keep on top of it, it's the data entry I could do without when I pay someone to do it. Anyway...

[cojak]

Did you previously send your accountant a box of receipts and pile of bank statements, once a year, telling them to figure it out? I can see how changing from that is a shock. You've gone from having no idea as to the financial health of your company to having, at your fingertips, a real-time system that shows you exactly where you stand at any given moment (assuming you're willing to spend a few minutes a day or hours a month doing some minor data entry work).

AKA In Business on Your Own Account.

[ladymuck]

Did you previously send your accountant a box of receipts and pile of bank statements, once a year, telling them to figure it out? I can see how changing from that is a shock. You've gone from having no idea as to the financial health of your company to having, at your fingertips, a real-time system that shows you exactly where you stand at any given moment (assuming you're willing to spend a few minutes a day or hours a month doing some minor data entry work).

[northernladuk]

You'd normally do it on a spreadsheet or something in the old days wouldn't you? It's a book keeping tool for you to do your books, which includes putting your data in.

Also think of the scale of the service you get for your money. You pay what, a thousand quid a year for your accountant. How much work would you do for a grand? 2 days? Do you think your accountant is going to do the legwork for you when you are only paying them for less than 16 hours of work over a year?

It's a one off excercise you'll not have to do every again.

EDIT : You said you were going to wait until your year end before swapping. You shouldn't have a lot to put in if it's the beginning of the year.

It's the way of the world to put the effort back on the customer to keep costs down. Look at holidays, banking, whatever. You have to key all your info in before it gets to a person.

[jamesbrown]

Not really. The bulk of what you're paying them to do is the annual returns, CT600 and SATR.

A lot of accountants factor the cost of FA into their monthly/annual fee, though.

[cojak]

Accountants will be less keen to provide the service you previously had, but with regular updates you should be able to get hours reduced to minutes.

You may have to review your own bookkeeping processes.

[Abbot]

What exactly are you doing that takes you hours to complete? I don’t personally use Freeagent but I can’t think of why it would take so long to update the ledgers for Ltd co contractor.

[velcro]

I've now been set up with FreeAgent, and yes it does seem very good.
My question is, that while before I sent everything to my accountant to process, now I have to spend several hours putting all the info in. It does seem like I'm doing the job of the accountant and yet they're still charging me the same money for not doing very much.
Has anyone had their accountant's bill reduced by the use of FreeAgent?