Reply to: Termination reasons and failure to communicate

[psychocandy]

OP I agree the normal and decent way is to give the contractor enough notice. "Most" people treat contractors like human beings and do this.

Not all and thats the important bit.

Its very scummy what they did but the point is they can do it. I'm betting, like you said, they wanted the perm to take over and, in their head, this was the easiest way. Its a poor way to treat people but it happens.

[ASB]

Op, I do have a certain amount of sympathy. The question boils down to whether or not they breached any real contract you had with them.

Without sight and many more details nobody can know.

The first problem is "what contract". Given the contractual chain you described then it seems to me unlikely there was any contract in place between you and the end user. There may be an implied one (which would be different to the hypothetical IR35 one).

The only real contract you are likely to have is between you and your umbrella. There may be a breach. That is who you attack.

Any reasonably well written brolly contract will of course have this eventuality covered.

[eek]

Remember agents don't give references though. They will confirm start and end dates, nothing more. It's just not worth saying another peep in case they get in trouble for either giving any more information that comes back to bite them.

No one gives references any more. If you say anything beyond, they worked here between this date and that date you open up a world of pain your really don't want to go near.

[northernladuk]

As a contractor, you can usually be terminated at any time. The notice periods on a lot of contracts is immediate, or in the alternative, very short. There is no remedy - the trade-off for the big bucks is job security.

However, if the reasons given were false, or exaggerated, there may be a claim in damages. Unless the reasons stopped you getting work with the agency again, or they are giving bad references, it may not be worth much money, nor the aggravation, though.

Remember agents don't give references though. They will confirm start and end dates, nothing more. It's just not worth saying another peep in case they get in trouble for either giving any more information that comes back to bite them.

[Vordrak]

As a contractor, you can usually be terminated at any time. The notice periods on a lot of contracts is immediate, or in the alternative, very short. There is no remedy - the trade-off for the big bucks is job security.

However, if the reasons given were false, or exaggerated, there may be a claim in damages. Unless the reasons stopped you getting work with the agency again, or they are giving bad references, it may not be worth much money, nor the aggravation, though.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

(let's call them "HAL")

Out of the blue,

I see what you did there.

With this gap opening up before I can start the new role for the same public sector client, am I in any position where I might hold the global company to account for loss of earnings, the bogus termination reasons, or the unreasonable/vexatious behaviours? What I've been through would never have passed muster for enployees of course, it would look a lot like unlawful dismissal.

No - if you wanted "rights" you should have become an employee.
Being an inside IR35 worker is the worst of all worlds - not an employee, but treated like one except for any kind of employment rights.

[northernladuk]

Sorry, by "case", I wasn't meaning to fight the termination, but wasn't clear.

I meant defamation of some sort, but IANAL - clearly!

Ah gotcha. Yeah. Not much you can do about that and highly unlikely as you say.

[jmo21]

JMO also says 'Does the OP have a case for that? Maybe?' which is very nice of him to say because it's all fluffy but it's wholly wrong. There is NO case here. Period. You were terminated as per the contract and that's that. As has been said, you do not have permie rights because this is a short term contract with termination clauses attached.

Sorry, by "case", I wasn't meaning to fight the termination, but wasn't clear.

I meant defamation of some sort, but IANAL - clearly!

If that is the case for the OP, I can understand being annoyed about that part. It could potentially have ramifications for him down the line with the agency, or a colleague at client co who only heard the "lie", causing him to not get future work.

Does the OP have a case for that? Maybe? Can he prove it? Maybe, maybe not. Is it worth pursuing? Highly unlikely IMHO.

[Wobblyheed]

If you didn't see it coming then you weren't taking notice. Public sector are notorious for ditching contractors with zero notice and I speak from experience. Especially when you return to somewhere that you were once permie, after 20 years of contracting Jealously is not a nice trait.

[Paralytic]

A balanced reply that I concur with - thanks jmo21.

Have you actually shared the bogus reason given for your contract being terminated?

[northernladuk]

Alright BB... Nice to see you back. Everything well?

[BolshieBastard]

Hi all,

I've been contracting on a rolling basis with a very large very well known global company (let's call them "HAL") for the last 3 years. This is in IT services for the public sector. There haven't been any issues on the contract, and I have come inside IR35 at their request (more of a decree, really).

Out of the blue, my Agency called me to say that my contract had been terminated and I had been served with 5d notice. It had been timed deliberately for me being on holiday. The termination and the manner in which it was carried out is highly unusual in our domain, where only someone seriously in breach would be treated like this. It would be typical to move someone to another or give them as much time is necessary to get into the new role (eg. 4-6 weeks).

At no point did the global services company raise delivery issues with me, and thus, there was never any opportunity to discuss or even course correct their perceived issues. At no point did anyone call me, meet with me, nor communicate with me that there were background issues. There is no record of any feedback, there are no emails, and there were no meetings. It's a stitch up, and the people around me say it's a stitch up. The global IT company went from from "see you when you get back" on the Friday, to terminating on the Monday.

The reasons given to the Agency for termination for termination were bogus. (or at least: I accept they're legitimate to the degree that we can all make something up, and if we don't communicate, well it happened to its the truth right?)

It's been suggested to me that the real motivation behind terminating me was because they want a staff member to take over the leadership role I was in (okay fine so why harm me like this?).

My skills are in demand and I found a very similar role within a day or so, but because of bureaucratic issues related to paperwork, I cannot start it for 6 weeks [since the termination].

The supply chain I am in is: I am an employee of an umbrella company, who provide me as an individual to fill an inside IR35 role offered by the Agency, supplying me to a large global IT company's services division, who in turn provide a service to a public sector end client.

With this gap opening up before I can start the new role for the same public sector client, am I in any position where I might hold the global company to account for loss of earnings, the bogus termination reasons, or the unreasonable/vexatious behaviours? What I've been through would never have passed muster for enployees of course, it would look a lot like unlawful dismissal.

You got revoked because you took time off when they didnt want you to be off. That or they really do have a permie bum to put on your seat.

If, as you claim in a later post, that serving you 5 days instead of 4 to 6 weeks isn't normal, then you've clearly done something to hack the client off. Like I said, going on leave when they really didnt want you to do. Plans change quickly in IT so even if you had agreed leave, some delivery schedule etc may have changed at short notice and maybe they even expected you to cancel the leave before being asked, who knows?

Bottom line is you're out. Rock the boat more and you might find you dont get an invite back in the future, presuming you might want to go back.

[northernladuk]

A balanced reply that I concur with - thanks jmo21.

It's only balanced as it's what you want to hear which is often the case in threads like this. It's the same advice as every other post, just with some fluffy cotton wool and red herrings around it. Reasons for being terminated don't come in to it. Any references provided will just have time started and ended. No one will ever know about the real reasons given, let alone the real real reason for the termination. I'd be annoyed (if all you've said is a true balanced explanation of the situation) but only because people haven't been big enough to treat me like a contractor instead of the excuses.

JMO also says 'Does the OP have a case for that? Maybe?' which is very nice of him to say because it's all fluffy but it's wholly wrong. There is NO case here. Period. You were terminated as per the contract and that's that. As has been said, you do not have permie rights because this is a short term contract with termination clauses attached.

It happened, just move on as all the other straightforward answers said. It's not really about a balanced responses and agreeing.

[stillalive]

A balanced reply that I concur with - thanks jmo21.

[jmo21]

Unfortunately, I am sure it does happen that some client co's feels they need to make up a reason in order to "fire" a contractor, when, as others above have said, they usually do not need to do that.

If that is the case for the OP, I can understand being annoyed about that part. It could potentially have ramifications for him down the line with the agency, or a colleague at client co who only heard the "lie", causing him to not get future work.

Does the OP have a case for that? Maybe? Can he prove it? Maybe, maybe not. Is it worth pursuing? Highly unlikely IMHO.

"We no longer want to continue this contract, and are exercising the termination clause" is entirely sufficient. If they don't provide work for any notice period in the contract then it is effectively an "out the door that day" situation.

Either way (the sh!tty made up reason, or the normal "we don't want to continue this contract"), if they don't give you work, you cannot bill, so the contract is over, there is nothing you can do.