Reply to: SJD Accountancy - Any representative here?

[mekondelta]

I got through in the end but had to use LinkedIn to message each of the Senior Team until someone responded... Cost me £25 to upgrade my LinkedIn account but worth it.

[Fred Bloggs]

This is definitely not the case I am sure - they are part of a massive contractor group and posting on twitter. Maybe someone switched off the phones by mistake.

Indeed. More likely it's total apathy and complete disregard for the welfare of their clients. They know full and well that it's the customer's problem to pay fines and sort out mistakes in official filings. They clearly just don't care and the sooner the client base wakes up and moves away from them the better.

[saptastic]

So does anyone know if SJD has gone under or not? It appears so as no-one answers but you'd have thought there would be some news on it....?

This is definitely not the case I am sure - they are part of a massive contractor group and posting on twitter. Maybe someone switched off the phones by mistake.

[mekondelta]

So does anyone know if SJD has gone under or not? It appears so as no-one answers but you'd have thought there would be some news on it....?

[mekondelta]

The only way to deal with appalling companies is to vote with your feet. I suggest you leave these dreadful accounting firms behind. They seem to me to be way past their sell by date and survive solely on client inertia.

Excellent advice which I've already carried out but I'm being investigated by HMRC (routine) and it covers the accounting period when I used SJD....

[Fred Bloggs]

Glad you're sorted! I got the same response as you initially then heard nothing...

The only way to deal with appalling companies is to vote with your feet. I suggest you leave these dreadful accounting firms behind. They seem to me to be way past their sell by date and survive solely on client inertia.

[mekondelta]

Yep , so i tweeted and dm'd my details to SJD twitter handle and some one got in touch with me in a few hours and sorted my case out.

Glad you're sorted! I got the same response as you initially then heard nothing...

[helloW0rld]

By getting in touch do you mean the accountant actually replied or just that someone who monitors Twitter/Facebook Messenger replied? I had a reply from Facebook Messenger saying they'd get a message to the accountant and raise it with the senior team but nothing since...

Yep , so i tweeted and dm'd my details to SJD twitter handle and some one got in touch with me in a few hours and sorted my case out.

[Whitelime]

I have been running my side hustle Ltd Co using Quick File. I have just completed year end tax and Co House returns. I think these days FreeAgent features more automated tasks than it did back when I was using it some years ago. FreeAgent I should think will make DIY easier than Quick File. My side hustle Ltd Co is not really any more complex than my Ltd Co when I was a full time contractor. No payroll runs etc. (Having said, that I think FreeAgent runs pay roll anyway). So I think the answer to your first question is a qualified yes. A contractor who has taken a keen interest the Ltd Co finances, book keeping and tax for a few years should have little trouble these days doing DIY. As long as the Ltd is a simple contractor business. Those who have been hands off and just left things to an accountant, the answer is no. I am firmly in the former category.

For the second question, the requirements for small Ltd Co's accounts are very clear and laid out on the gov.uk portal. Only abbreviated accounts are required, there is no requirement for an accountant to sign them off. Only a director needs to approve the accounts.

Many thanks for the confirmation - I believe I'm in the former category too. Have been with NW for nearly 7 years, but the service they provide nowadays just doesn't justify the £1100+ a year anymore. Company year end is September, so looks like a good time to make the move.

[Fred Bloggs]

Yeah all true - the simple model of get a client, provide great service, they refer a new client, company grows - for some reason is not good enough.
I cant believe the VC group of sjd,nixon etc has grown since the massive injection of £££

I think the money will be flowing in the other direction. Only client inertia keeps businesses like this afloat longer term. Terrible way to run a business. Any decent staff will have long gone to pastures new.

[Fred Bloggs]

Is it possible to completely remove the need for an Accountant using something like Freeagent? There's no need for an Accountant to sign off the Annual Accounts or anything (for a micro company if it makes a difference to the answer)?

I have been running my side hustle Ltd Co using Quick File. I have just completed year end tax and Co House returns. I think these days FreeAgent features more automated tasks than it did back when I was using it some years ago. FreeAgent I should think will make DIY easier than Quick File. My side hustle Ltd Co is not really any more complex than my Ltd Co when I was a full time contractor. No payroll runs etc. (Having said, that I think FreeAgent runs pay roll anyway). So I think the answer to your first question is a qualified yes. A contractor who has taken a keen interest the Ltd Co finances, book keeping and tax for a few years should have little trouble these days doing DIY. As long as the Ltd is a simple contractor business. Those who have been hands off and just left things to an accountant, the answer is no. I am firmly in the former category.

For the second question, the requirements for small Ltd Co's accounts are very clear and laid out on the gov.uk portal. Only abbreviated accounts are required, there is no requirement for an accountant to sign them off. Only a director needs to approve the accounts.

[eek]

Is it possible to completely remove the need for an Accountant using something like Freeagent? There's no need for an Accountant to sign off the Annual Accounts or anything (for a micro company if it makes a difference to the answer)?

Yes, you just need to ensure HMRC and companies house get the details they want.

[Whitelime]

Spot on. Fortunately, for those who are interested, it has never been easier to DIY. And keeps getting easier as software tools and services like banking, tax, book keeping get evermore integrated.

Is it possible to completely remove the need for an Accountant using something like Freeagent? There's no need for an Accountant to sign off the Annual Accounts or anything (for a micro company if it makes a difference to the answer)?

[saptastic]

You've hit the nail on the head. A few key points I'd like to make:

1) it's so hard to compare quality of customer service. On paper all "contractor accountants" are the same. They all do your accounts, tax returns, say they'll answer queries etc. There may be some quantifiable differences like whether personal tax returns, references, registered office address etc are included/an extra, but generally it looks like accountants sell a homogenous product. Customer service will vary massively from firm to firm, speed/quality/accuracy of responses to queries/work done, but it's hard quantify. Clients won't tend to have experience of lots of accountancy firms, so will tend to assume "they're all the same". Even clients who are very aware of the significant variation in customer service will find it's hard to tell which firms are/aren't good.

2) historically accountants charged based on time spent. Yes any query you asked lead to a bill, but at least it was in the accountant's interest to give you a decent, swift reply. To be a more profitable firm, you generally charge more per minute/hour. You could try to degrade service, less effort on response quality, but clients are far more likely to challenge a modest bill for poor work than a large bill for good work. Many firms have drifted to fixed fees. Clients initially like this, no surprise bills. However, the easiest way to be more profitable now is to degrade the service. It's harder for clients to notice than price rises. Reduce the number of highly qualified/experienced accounting staff (as they're expensive), replace with a few poorly qualified/inexperienced staff. The staff will hate it and rapidly move on, but there's always another sucker ready to take on the job. At least in the short term you still get £/month from clients regardless of the delay/quality of your responses. You then rely on client lethargy/"better the devil you know" hoping they stick with you. Your brand reputation may take a hit, increasing complaints, but people will assume "they're all as bad" so the whole industry gets tarnished rather than the poor performers.

3) accountancy firms have been pushed to run less like professional firms (governed by ethics, doing right by the customer = primary focus), more like businesses (governed by profit, any extra way you can squeeze cash from a client, do it). You can see this by the fact VCs have taken an interest in the market, firms owned/run by non-accountants, increasing number of complaints about poor service (rather than high fees), and that increasingly firms are supplementing their income directly from clients with income indirectly from clients. You want a complementary service (insurance/mortgage/whatever), your accountant can likely recommend someone. In years gone by this would have been the firm the accountant felt provided the best value service for your needs, no benefit to the accountant other than the comfort they've done the right thing. Now it'll often be the firm that gives the accountant the biggest kickback. You likely won't even know as you'll be assuming you can trust your accountant and won't bother to read the small print.

The accountancy world, especially for the small end of the market, needed to change/evolve, and still does. However I think some of the changes to date have hurt clients far more than they've helped them. Sorry for the essay, #endrant

Yeah all true - the simple model of get a client, provide great service, they refer a new client, company grows - for some reason is not good enough.
I cant believe the VC group of sjd,nixon etc has grown since the massive injection of £££

[Fred Bloggs]

You've hit the nail on the head. A few key points I'd like to make:

1) it's so hard to compare quality of customer service. On paper all "contractor accountants" are the same. They all do your accounts, tax returns, say they'll answer queries etc. There may be some quantifiable differences like whether personal tax returns, references, registered office address etc are included/an extra, but generally it looks like accountants sell a homogenous product. Customer service will vary massively from firm to firm, speed/quality/accuracy of responses to queries/work done, but it's hard quantify. Clients won't tend to have experience of lots of accountancy firms, so will tend to assume "they're all the same". Even clients who are very aware of the significant variation in customer service will find it's hard to tell which firms are/aren't good.

2) historically accountants charged based on time spent. Yes any query you asked lead to a bill, but at least it was in the accountant's interest to give you a decent, swift reply. To be a more profitable firm, you generally charge more per minute/hour. You could try to degrade service, less effort on response quality, but clients are far more likely to challenge a modest bill for poor work than a large bill for good work. Many firms have drifted to fixed fees. Clients initially like this, no surprise bills. However, the easiest way to be more profitable now is to degrade the service. It's harder for clients to notice than price rises. Reduce the number of highly qualified/experienced accounting staff (as they're expensive), replace with a few poorly qualified/inexperienced staff. The staff will hate it and rapidly move on, but there's always another sucker ready to take on the job. At least in the short term you still get £/month from clients regardless of the delay/quality of your responses. You then rely on client lethargy/"better the devil you know" hoping they stick with you. Your brand reputation may take a hit, increasing complaints, but people will assume "they're all as bad" so the whole industry gets tarnished rather than the poor performers.

3) accountancy firms have been pushed to run less like professional firms (governed by ethics, doing right by the customer = primary focus), more like businesses (governed by profit, any extra way you can squeeze cash from a client, do it). You can see this by the fact VCs have taken an interest in the market, firms owned/run by non-accountants, increasing number of complaints about poor service (rather than high fees), and that increasingly firms are supplementing their income directly from clients with income indirectly from clients. You want a complementary service (insurance/mortgage/whatever), your accountant can likely recommend someone. In years gone by this would have been the firm the accountant felt provided the best value service for your needs, no benefit to the accountant other than the comfort they've done the right thing. Now it'll often be the firm that gives the accountant the biggest kickback. You likely won't even know as you'll be assuming you can trust your accountant and won't bother to read the small print.

The accountancy world, especially for the small end of the market, needed to change/evolve, and still does. However I think some of the changes to date have hurt clients far more than they've helped them. Sorry for the essay, #endrant

Spot on. Fortunately, for those who are interested, it has never been easier to DIY. And keeps getting easier as software tools and services like banking, tax, book keeping get evermore integrated.