One client, two IR35 outcomes

[eek]

The end client has always seen you as inside IR35.

Given that you've been working there for 18 months on the basis that you were outside IR35 I wouldn't risk continuing working there past the end of this month.

[simes]

Could I ask for how long the contract is?

This only because (like many others) the client seems a mite early with the implementing of. Could you in the first instance only ask for and accept a three month extension? While this won't answer your questions, it will defer the impact and allow some time to gather resources.

I would also ask why, if you are battling on the previous assessment of being Outside, why you want to transition to PAYE anything? Unless I have misunderstood something, if Outside means Outside, then it is inferring Gross payments into your LtdCo.

[northernladuk]

I think you are misunderstanding how IR35 is applied. It isnt about certificates and sign offs. Clients don't honour it etc. It's an assessment of the situation which can change throught an engagement. Not by a decision, but buy an action that no longer supports an outside determination. I. E The client starts directing you which they never did before. If so your IR35 status is in jeopardy. The client can't honour it. You can start outside but move inside just by your actions alone.

The client can't just sign off on IR35.

You see what I'm saying? If so have a think about the situation again and focus on the actual working practices and see if the situation is any different.

Also you say one client in the title but the complication seems to come from the end client so there are two clients here no?

What's are the two clients. Public or private?

What are you actually doing? Being body shopped or delivering a service? And be honest..not what you think you should be or would like to be doing.

Why would you go through an brolly if they give you an outside SDS? They are only asking you to go through one because you are inside.

Even if you manage to twist their arms to stay outside now I can't see how it isn't going to change in April. Even if it is borderline now come April theynwill probably pick inside to not get in trouble.

[Jemz0r]

I have been engaged through my Ltd co to work with a client for the last 1.5 years.

On receipt of initial contract, I engaged Qdos to undertake a contract review and on receipt of an outside-IR35 result, agreed to take on the contract.

A few months into the contract, I completed a working practices questionnaire through Qdos. The working practices were signed off by the client and following receipt, Qdos issued an outside-IR35 certificate for the full engagement.

Fast forward a few months, the client wrote to all PSC's and stated they would not honour any historic IR35 assessments. Instead they had asked PSC's to agree a scope of services with the end-client to work around questionnaire-based assessments. I subsequently agreed a scope of services with the end-client.

A few months ago, I was approached directly by my client. On discussion of my working practices, the client was of the view that my engagement could be treated as a contract for services. We agreed a specific scope relating to the work that I have been doing and can undertake in the future so that this could be formalised through the end-client.

After a meeting with the end-client, they then came back and said they would look to issue an inside-IR35 determination as the end-client was of the view that they are/should be receiving a service from me (and that they had this expectation from all PSC's). They suggested that if I wanted a different outcome to the assessment, that I speak to the end-client to convince them to accept the scope of services we had agreed previously (which the end-client is no longer accepting because they now say they expect a service).

My contract ends at the end of this month but they would like to extend. The client has asked me whether I would be prepared to go through an Umbrella beyond this date. I have said in order for me to accept an extension and if an SDS is to be issued, that it must be outside-IR35 since they have already signed off on this previously, albeit it over a year ago. If they agree to this, I would be prepoared to transition to PAYE (through my Ltd co and not an Umbrella) to accommodate the end-client's request for a service, provided the additional liability is covered in the rate.

I would welcome a sense check of the above and whether I am going about this the right way. I am interested in agreeing a way forward, but my perception of risk makes me more concerned about maintaining a clean record than continuing the contract beyond this month. I would also welcome any thoughts on when to start putting pen to paper so far as communication with the client, since they are quite nervous at this point about putting anything in writing and is dealing with me through meetings (bar scope of services).