Reply to: Open Source/Free or low cost accounting software recommendations

[malvolio]

You're perfectly correct. The actual saving was a shade over £420k.

Feel better now?

[pr1]

Semantics is not your strong point, is it... Nor accountancy come to that

Not "free" if my £60k charges resulting in a £400k cash saving are looked at as costing you £60k rather than saving you £360k.

[malvolio]

So when you offer to help solve a client's issues you tell them you're doing it for free?

Semantics is not your strong point, is it... Nor accountancy come to that

"Free" is a good cue word to grab your attention.

Not "free" ,if only because people do not value things that are "free", and I have costs to recover.

"Free" if not doing what I advise costs you money, but after 2-3 years doing what I advise has saved you less than I charged for my services then my services were "free".

Not "free" if my £60k charges resulting in a £400k cash saving are looked at as costing you £60k rather than saving you £360k.

Which bit of "free is not the same as cost effective" are you having problems with?

[ladymuck]

So when you offer to help solve a client's issues you tell them you're doing it for free?

If you save them more than you're charging, you're not charging enough

[pr1]

Free in that they save you more than they cost

So when you offer to help solve a client's issues you tell them you're doing it for free?

[Fred Bloggs]

You said



I just wondered if you meant

Good accountants are not free, as are good software packages such as FreeAgent, since they save you time and your time is money.

But if you did find an excellent accountant, who supplies FreeAgent, all for the princely sum of nothing then please send me their phone number

My own experience is that if there's a mistake 99% of the time it's the accountants making the mistake. I simply got sick and tired of checking and double checking everything the accountants did. Left unchecked, the so called professionals would have cost me several thousand pounds over a decade or so. FreeAgent is a terrific tool because it largely automates the entire day to day process and doesn't leave things like tax returns and dividend declarations to the mercy of an over worked, totally stressed out, pi55ed off accounts clerk.

[malvolio]

You said



I just wondered if you meant

Good accountants are not free, as are good software packages such as FreeAgent, since they save you time and your time is money.

But if you did find an excellent accountant, who supplies FreeAgent, all for the princely sum of nothing then please send me their phone number

Free in that they save you more than they cost - if they are any good at their job...

Even ignoring my views on not spending my expensive free time doing the work badly, they will usually save you money by not screwing up tax returns and payment events and advising - even in general terms - how best to utilise that year's tax position.

It's only my opinion, no more no less, other people have different ones. OTOH, how much money are you "spending" on agencies when you could set up your own marketing effort and sell your services directly to the open market and organising your own credit agency to get paid...?

It's a business. Cheap and cost-effective are not the same thing.

[LondonManc]

Time to take "attention to detail" off malvolio's cv.....

[ladymuck]

Ermm.. No - what am I missing?

Perhaps do the sums properly. If it takes five hours a month over the year to log all the various banking entries, work out your payroll, work out your VAT return and prepare your company accounts, as well as the year end stuff and generally keeping track of your profits margins, tax liabilities and committed expenditure, then at an average rate that's costing you around £250 (or £500 if you are a proper cost accountant and add in the free time you are wasting while doing these chores). The average accountant is around £100 a month.

And what if there is an error, or HMRC make a cock-up (not that ever happens)? My accountants have resolved issues with HMRC in less than a a day; I've spent longer than that trying to talk to someone.

Plus I'm not an accountant (at least, not since 1978) and have no desire to be doing all the reading to keep up to date with an ever-changing tax landscape. I'll leave it to the experts thanks.

You said

Good accountants are free, as are good software packages such as FreeAgent, since they save you time and your time is money.

I just wondered if you meant

Good accountants are not free, as are good software packages such as FreeAgent, since they save you time and your time is money.

But if you did find an excellent accountant, who supplies FreeAgent, all for the princely sum of nothing then please send me their phone number

[malvolio]

I'm guessing there's a 'not' missing from the first sentence...

Ermm.. No - what am I missing?

Perhaps do the sums properly. If it takes five hours a month over the year to log all the various banking entries, work out your payroll, work out your VAT return and prepare your company accounts, as well as the year end stuff and generally keeping track of your profits margins, tax liabilities and committed expenditure, then at an average rate that's costing you around £250 (or £500 if you are a proper cost accountant and add in the free time you are wasting while doing these chores). The average accountant is around £100 a month.

And what if there is an error, or HMRC make a cock-up (not that ever happens)? My accountants have resolved issues with HMRC in less than a a day; I've spent longer than that trying to talk to someone.

Plus I'm not an accountant (at least, not since 1978) and have no desire to be doing all the reading to keep up to date with an ever-changing tax landscape. I'll leave it to the experts thanks.

[Fred Bloggs]

I'm guessing there's a 'not' missing from the first sentence...

Exactly my experience too. The myth of a proactive accountant doing anything other than feeding your Ltd Co business through a sausage machine is alive and well it seems.

[ladymuck]

PAYE can be done using the free HMRC tools, if you're going to run a PAYE scheme.

You won't need to worry about VAT as your turnover is well under the threshold.

Are you expecting load of micro payments going through the bank, which is why you want it automated? I presume your bank doesn't offer a statement export to csv that you could plug into the SJD spreadsheet? It probably wouldn't be all that difficult to write a macro to handle it.

And...is it really worth incorporating for £10k? What's up with a sole trader set up?

[ladymuck]

Good accountants are free, as are good software packages such as FreeAgent, since they save you time and your time is money.

Bad accountants and software, however, can be very expensive...

Must admit I'm curious as to why you need a company for £10k a year.

I'm guessing there's a 'not' missing from the first sentence...

[NotAllThere]

PS: Have liked/upvoted for all the helpful posts out here

[LondonManc]

Business bank account | No monthly fees - Starling Bank

They integrate to your accounting package and have the FSCS backing.