Reply to: A Sad “IR35” Day

[cojak]

And here’s Maslin’s post. https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ntracting.html

[cojak]

Not found.. weird. Would have liked to read it.

Rats, the OP requested that it be removed as his name was too close to his email apparently. I’ll have a word with admin about the rules regarding this, there was good info on that thread.

In the meantime I’ll copy Maslin’s reply and post it in its own thread.

[cojak]

Training others is a big part of being a contractor. Take that extension.

Only if this was made clear in the interview.

[BABABlackSheep]

The thread I was trying to find is https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2718940

as I referenced it in a different thread when I was answering the same question twice within a few minutes.

Not found.. weird. Would have liked to read it.

[BABABlackSheep]

5 years ago, how many times have HMRC successfully claimed Loan charge?

Even if ER has been low on their radar thus far, the sweeping changes on the market and a wave of MVLs they will surely increase their focus on it.

Do you really want to go toe to toe with HMRC, yet alone when you knowingly break the rules around ER....

ER is high on their radar as the government have stated they are looking at it. Knowing our luck that will be in the March budget. In which case my pension might be getting a significant boost.

What rule would someone be breaking by going MVL? No one has crystal ball so absolutely impossible to argue you knew what you were going to do.

Loan charge was different.

[sal]

How many times have HMRC successfully claimed ER tax difference back on someone who has closed a limited company, gone umbrella for a few years and then started another ltd company?

5 years ago, how many times have HMRC successfully claimed Loan charge?

Even if ER has been low on their radar thus far, the sweeping changes on the market and a wave of MVLs they will surely increase their focus on it.

Do you really want to go toe to toe with HMRC, yet alone when you knowingly break the rules around ER....

[eek]

I’m not sure what’s happening here, you aren’t the only one to say this eek, but I’ve had a look through the forums and I can’t find any recent thread deletions. Some posters have deleted their own posts, but that’s different.

I prefer to close threads rather than delete them.

The thread I was trying to find is https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2718940

as I referenced it in a different thread when I was answering the same question twice within a few minutes.

[cojak]

Maslin posted a very good reply about it yesterday but it is on a thread that seems to have been deleted.

I’m not sure what’s happening here, you aren’t the only one to say this eek, but I’ve had a look through the forums and I can’t find any recent thread deletions. Some posters have deleted their own posts, but that’s different.

I prefer to close threads rather than delete them.

[Amanensia]

How many times have HMRC successfully claimed ER tax difference back on someone who has closed a limited company, gone umbrella for a few years and then started another ltd company?

Never, as long as "a few years" > 2.

[BABABlackSheep]

My comment was related to re-opening a limited company and returning to contracting through a PSC within 2 years.

Easy to argue the permanent job fell apart and you had to go back contracting.
Far harder to say your umbrella contract fell apart and you returned to contracting using a limited company.

Semantics is everything here.

And HMRC won't stop you re-opening a company. What we are talking about here is HMRC chasing you for inappropriate claimed entrepreneur relief as you reopen a limited company.

And as I stated in my previous post Maslin had explained it far better than I did.

How many times have HMRC successfully claimed ER tax difference back on someone who has closed a limited company, gone umbrella for a few years and then started another ltd company?

[eek]

Clients are forcing contractors to go umbrella. Inside via PSC is not even an option for many.

Of course contractors are closing via MVL and I don’t believe for a second HMRC will stop people opening ltd in the future. Makes absolutely no sense and probably illegal.

My comment was related to re-opening a limited company and returning to contracting through a PSC within 2 years.

Easy to argue the permanent job fell apart and you had to go back contracting.
Far harder to say your umbrella contract fell apart and you returned to contracting using a limited company.

Semantics is everything here.

And HMRC won't stop you re-opening a company. What we are talking about here is HMRC chasing you for inappropriate claimed entrepreneur relief as you reopen a limited company.

And as I stated in my previous post Maslin had explained it far better than I did.

[Lance]

A Sad “IR35” Day

Clients are forcing contractors to go umbrella. Inside via PSC is not even an option for many.

Of course contractors are closing via MVL and I don’t believe for a second HMRC will stop people opening ltd in the future. Makes absolutely no sense and probably illegal.

They won’t stop them. They’ll just want the tax, plus fines, plus interest, on what should, in their mind, have been a dividend payment.

[BABABlackSheep]

Not quite - go Permie and if things change you can show that you intended to leave contract work and it just didn't work out.
go umbrella and that argument doesn't work

Maslin posted a very good reply about it yesterday but it is on a thread that seems to have been deleted.

The issue isn't really one of can I close my company, it was more how easy would it be to start it up again without bareface lying to HMRC.

Clients are forcing contractors to go umbrella. Inside via PSC is not even an option for many.

Of course contractors are closing via MVL and I don’t believe for a second HMRC will stop people opening ltd in the future. Makes absolutely no sense and probably illegal.

[eek]

Go permie, go umbrella, no difference to MVL. Same 2 year rule after closure.

If I go back Umbrella it’s 2 years from closure, then if I get an outside role, I’ll start another ltd.

Not quite - go Permie and if things change you can show that you intended to leave contract work and it just didn't work out.
go umbrella and that argument doesn't work

Maslin posted a very good reply about it yesterday but it is on a thread that seems to have been deleted.

The issue isn't really one of can I close my company, it was more how easy would it be to start it up again without bareface lying to HMRC.

[BABABlackSheep]

I wouldn't close down just because you've had a long term client. Just carry on trading

Usually. Just tempted to get the cash out before they change the ER rules. Coupled with long term client = decision to be made.