Reply to: Working from Portugal

[gmans]

Listen, I totally agree with you that it's unreasonable to think that one would be tax-exempt in a modern country like PT.
And to be clear, I'm not talking about tax residency - the residency is clearly Portugal. I'm talking about where is the tax paid.

I just cannot find anyone to tell me where the legislation says where I need to pay tax that's all, this includes accountants. You give up because you cannot either.

I have found English and Portuguese accountants, which are setting up Brits this way (free of tax) in Portugal for years!
You can find one here for example (quite detailed): NHR: residency in Portugal for foreign nationals - live tax-free in Portugal

Now, again, I agree with you and find it hard to believe that this is the case, thus why I haven't just started to set this up with one of those accountants.

Edit: I really appreciate your input regardless. And I understand it's a complex topic, here might not be the Forum I guess and needs to be sorted by an accountant . My issue is that I'm getting mixed answers, that's all.

I dont think you can class the South Korea predicament as the same as they dont have the NHR system in place. It's confusing but a better way may be to set up and LTD in the Uk and be paid via dividens, you will also I guess need a PE permanent establishment there and visit as well, to validate the fact that the entreprise is established there. LLP is just wages straight to you so harder to justify the entity being Uk based. i'm still fact finding but that's how far I got. keep me posted.

[WTFH]

"Foreign-sourced income from independent personal services"

What is the Portuguese definition of “independent personal services”, because in the UK, that is not “running a limited company” or “working under an umbrella company”.

How would your contract be structured?
If you’re not contracted as an Ltd or through an umbrella, what insurances will you get (PI/PL)?

What answer(s) would you like us to give you, because it’s fairly clear you’re looking for us to say something different to what we are saying, and maybe you’re not wanting us to ask questions that challenge you.

[Lance]

I honestly don't understand where all the aggression from everyone is coming from. I thought this was supposed to be a place to look for advise.

advice

I have mentioned several times that I would find it really hard to believe that I would be exempt from tax in both countries specially considering the simplicity of it.
Now - with that said - I have been suggested to look at the legislation and I have clearly done so and highlight the relevant parts. I was simply asking for someone to tell me where do I need to pay tax as it's not clear. That's all.

If you are in PT then you pay tax in PT. It's that clear.

One thing to note is that this regime, NHR, is very controversial, having various countries from EU raised with the EU parlament for Portugal to stop it as it is "too tax advantageous" for foreigners. Including tax-free presion for foreigners who became residents in Portugal (yes, completely exempt). If interested just google it, or just shout at me.

parliament pension

As for the tax free status. I've read up about it and it's not that simple. It's PT trying to encourage people to setup business there. Not moving there to live tax free whilst using their public services. It's no more controversial than other EU countries with competitive tax rules.

Regarding independent income, there are several places you can find people saying it's possible to be tax exempt in both countries. When I say people it's not random people, it's on portuguese lawyers and accountants websites. I can provide the links if interested.

They are trying to sell you something. Caveat emptor.
There are plenty of companies in the UK offering you 90% take home. Same ball-park.

Finally, just before you come back at me: I don't believe I would be tax free - I cannot find where it mentions where I should pay tax.

we're telling you here that you do. And if you can't find it elsewhere you're not looking very hard.

[Old Greg]

I appreciate everyone's input. As we all agree, we are adding no additional value to this thread anymore.

If anyone reading this finds themselves in a similar situation, feel free to drop me a DM. By then I should have figured this out.

Have you considered the Oude Joris Max 120 offer? NHR is the ideal scenario as it allows you to leverage EU cross border VAT rules to recycle UK VAT paid by clients through the Dutch Antilles, retaining 120% of the contract value in Portugal.

[prcsc]

I appreciate everyone's input. As we all agree, we are adding no additional value to this thread anymore.

If anyone reading this finds themselves in a similar situation, feel free to drop me a DM. By then I should have figured this out.

[Fred Bloggs]

All your income will be tax free. I trust we can now consider this matter closed.

Exactly, thank you OG.

[prcsc]

All your income will be tax free. I trust we can now consider this matter closed.

I honestly don't understand where all the aggression from everyone is coming from. I thought this was supposed to be a place to look for advise.

I have mentioned several times that I would find it really hard to believe that I would be exempt from tax in both countries specially considering the simplicity of it.
Now - with that said - I have been suggested to look at the legislation and I have clearly done so and highlight the relevant parts. I was simply asking for someone to tell me where do I need to pay tax as it's not clear. That's all.

One thing to note is that this regime, NHR, is very controversial, having various countries from EU raised with the EU parlament for Portugal to stop it as it is "too tax advantageous" for foreigners. Including tax-free presion for foreigners who became residents in Portugal (yes, completely exempt). If interested just google it, or just shout at me.

Regarding independent income, there are several places you can find people saying it's possible to be tax exempt in both countries. When I say people it's not random people, it's on portuguese lawyers and accountants websites. I can provide the links if interested.

Finally, just before you come back at me: I don't believe I would be tax free - I cannot find where it mentions where I should pay tax.

[prcsc]

I have given up here, but just in case anyone else out there as well as the OP believes this rubbish, I would just point out to you that even if you pass the UK statutory residence tests, you are obliged to tell HMRC of any UK derived income if it's not taxed. The UK operates a self assessment system. This basically means that you are obliged in law to look at your own individual tax position each year and inform HMRC of any untaxed income. That actually means worldwide income. But if you passed the UK residence tests and were not paying UK tax on overseas income, you still have to fill in a UK self assessment return and file it. This isn't optional. If you have undeclared, untaxed UK income from dividend or any where else that exceeds the tax free allowance, not declaring it is tax evasion. HMRC take this extremely seriously. The OP may not like this and may even choose to ignore it. I advise anyone else to think very carefully.

Thanks Fred, I def wasn't aware of that.

[Old Greg]

And the answer is that I pay tax in...?

All your income will be tax free. I trust we can now consider this matter closed.

[Fred Bloggs]

I have given up here, but just in case anyone else out there as well as the OP believes this rubbish, I would just point out to you that even if you pass the UK statutory residence tests, you are obliged to tell HMRC of any UK derived income if it's not taxed. The UK operates a self assessment system. This basically means that you are obliged in law to look at your own individual tax position each year and inform HMRC of any untaxed income. That actually means worldwide income. But if you passed the UK residence tests and were not paying UK tax on overseas income, you still have to fill in a UK self assessment return and file it. This isn't optional. If you have undeclared, untaxed UK income from dividend or any where else that exceeds the tax free allowance, not declaring it is tax evasion. HMRC take this extremely seriously. The OP may not like this and may even choose to ignore it. I advise anyone else to think very carefully.

[prcsc]

If anyone is interested, this applies to dividends:

For example, take the double taxation agreement between the UK and Portugal.

If you reside as an NHR in Portugal but you receive dividends from the UK, according to Article 10 of the DTA, the English government is able to tax those dividends, but in reality, they do not do this if you are not a resident there. Therefore, in Portugal, you will not be taxed on your English dividends as an NHR, since the UK would theoretically have the right to do so.

Therefore, as a non-habitual resident in Portugal, you can receive tax-free dividends from England.

NHR: residency in Portugal for foreign nationals - live tax-free in Portugal

[prcsc]

I think your issue is that you're not getting the answer you want.

And the answer is that I pay tax in...?

[BR14]

Edit: I really appreciate your input regardless. And I understand it's a complex topic, here might not be the Forum I guess and needs to be sorted by an accountant . My issue is that I'm getting mixed answers, that's all.

I think your issue is that you're not getting the answer you want.

[prcsc]

OK, I give up. If the OP is quite happy that he has no tax residency in either the UK or Portugal, then that's mighty fine by me. Go fill your boots everyone, free money to be had in Portugal guys

Listen, I totally agree with you that it's unreasonable to think that one would be tax-exempt in a modern country like PT.
And to be clear, I'm not talking about tax residency - the residency is clearly Portugal. I'm talking about where is the tax paid.

I just cannot find anyone to tell me where the legislation says where I need to pay tax that's all, this includes accountants. You give up because you cannot either.

I have found English and Portuguese accountants, which are setting up Brits this way (free of tax) in Portugal for years!
You can find one here for example (quite detailed): NHR: residency in Portugal for foreign nationals - live tax-free in Portugal

Now, again, I agree with you and find it hard to believe that this is the case, thus why I haven't just started to set this up with one of those accountants.

Edit: I really appreciate your input regardless. And I understand it's a complex topic, here might not be the Forum I guess and needs to be sorted by an accountant . My issue is that I'm getting mixed answers, that's all.

[Fred Bloggs]

OK, I give up. If the OP is quite happy that he has no tax residency in either the UK or Portugal, then that's mighty fine by me. Go fill your boots everyone, free money to be had in Portugal guys